Light Mortars

[Stixx]

For quiet a while now i've been seeing that the use of Infantry support weapons i.e. Mortars, MG's & Zook/Shreaks is an extremely important part & possibly overlooked part of CM.

I've noticed myself that more times or not it comes down to how effectively i use these weapons and it shows in the result.

I was just wondering how everyone deploys there light (60mm/2") Mortars. Does everyone group them in a battery with a HQ as a spotter?

Do some people advance them along side there Infantry and other support weapons?

Does anyone keep them singular and let them attack their own targets that have a LOS of?

Do you mainly use them for surpresing fire and try to save ammo?

Do you wait for juicy target and then open up with the lot?

I'm still playing around with these weapons and was interested in how other people used them.

So?

[KiwiJoe]

I group my 2 inch mortars 2gether and fire them under HQ control. 3-5 of these babies with rape any open top afv. Against infantry in trees they are deadly. It seems like 80% of the shells tree-burst. With the high rof they can cut up and break a platoon inside a turn allowing your infantry to rush them with great results. Their smoke rounds can also be useful.

[PiggDogg]

2 inch mortars at moderate range (up to maybe 300 meters) are gun killers. You see, there are these little magnets on the tips of their shells that direct them onto the barrels of enemy guns and mortars.

By the way, the gun killer part is correct, while the magnet part is pure speculation on my part.

Richard

[Bruno Weiss]

I use the 60mm mortars, or 81mm mortars as localized platoon support. Alloting one per platoon, and if enough are available, then creating a fire team under a Company HQ, or Hvy Wpn Platoon HQ, along with an MG, and if available a halftrack. If the force is more mobilized, then I sometimes use three halftracks to carry two mortar teams and a HQ for a mobile reserve fire support group.

[CMplayer]

I like to buy about 100 2" mortars

and hide them behind a hill in c&c

of an HQ. The first 50 mortars area

fire the enemy, then when they run

out of ammo, the other 50 start firing

and the first 50 go OVER THE TOP and

close assault. If they are fighting

a Sturmkompanie on a 1 tile island

(with a bridge) they can easily win

this way.

regards,

--Rett

[olandt]

I personaly like the 2inch mortar for it's mobility and generally assign each to a platoon use it to suppress enemy squads. Brit mainline inf really needs any additional firepower it can get. The American 60mm mortar and machine guns are too slow to keep up witj the way I advance my infantry and I will do 2 things with them. Either keep them far back in positions where they can provide support without having to move, or load em up on vehicles. I'm still not happy with my use of them when I have to move them to there objective. Mortars are vulnerable and I have a tendacy to get them killed trying to move them into position. I generally don't assign them to either platoons or groups in themselves, but keep them arround to use for whatever task that needs help and will send them ou singlely or in groups that way.

[Rifle1860]

I too like the 2". I have found the best distribution for them is to group or "brigade" them in the defence and assign them behing lead platoons in the advance. I must admit that I use them mostly for smoke (until it runs out) to cover gaps while advancing.

[JasonC]

The light mortars (other than the British 3", which is more like a stationary gun position) all have one serious problem - not enough ammo. If you take a US airborne additional 60mm you get a larger ammo load for a few more points - which is worth it. Otherwise, you get about 3 minutes of fire. With regulars, only about 1/3rd of the rounds will land close enough to a point target to hurt it, though a deeper grouped target (front to back along the line of fire) can make 1/2 to 2/3rds of the shells fired useful. You can get another round of smoke out of them.

Because of their limited "wind", the light mortars are best at one task - suppressing higher value, relatively fragile shooters. Field guns and HMG teams are the most common cases. Targeting AT team or FOs also works, but since they move around more you are less likely to get the shots.

Against targets in buildings they will generally prove ineffective, however. Tree cover is the right thing to shoot at. Avoid targeting regular squads unless there is a lot at stake tactically, or you doubt you will get a better target. Being larger, they are more resilient in morale terms after losing 1-3 men, which is all you can expect a light mortar to do. A small team can be panicked or broken by such losses, but squads generally only pin, and recover quickly.

Enemy light mortars are only worth firing at if you catch them moving in the open. In that case, unable to fire back, they will often abandon the mortar to run. If set up in cover, though, they are probably already firing, and will take themselves out of the battle on their own in a couple of minutes, without any firepower needed on your part - because their ammo will be gone. You are better off trying to suppress or break something that will be a threat longer.

One light mortar will generally have to fire off its whole ammo load to suppress one point target. 81mm versions are a bit better in this regard, with their larger shells. They will sometimes break a target in one turn. As soon as you see the target cowering on the ground, find another target(unless tactically, this is the only priority, etc) - you aren't likely to do more than that with the additional rounds.

An alternative to firing one mortar for its whole ammo load is to fire 2-3 of them for 1-2 turns. This is faster and more certain to get the result, but can wind up spending more ammo to get that first "head down" result. Note that closer range does improve mortar accuracy, so shots from 125 yards are more likely to land close than ones at 400 yards. But the gains in accuracy once already under ~250 yards are minimal. If you want greater accuracy, take higher unit quality rather than trying to work them much closer.

Organizationally, the Brit 2" mortar can travel with the platoons, since it has fast speed and even more important, no minimum range. It is also not worth using up the company HQ (the Brit's only "free" HQ, typically) to do nothing but babysit weak mortars that have only a few minutes of fire. One other Brit trick is to target a single nearby defended building with "area fire" from all available 2" mortars and PIATs, to destroy the building or ignite it (especially if already "*" damaged from heavier weapons). This assumes you can burn the ammo, but it can be effective.

60mm and 81mm are slower and need to be 100m from the target, making them overwatch weapons. You can use them either with an overwatching infantry platoon (more on that below), or with a weapons or company HQ "fire support element" (FSE for short). In either case their tactical role is the same - to suppress enemy gun crews and HMG teams.

The 81mm is slow enough on foot that you should either set it up where it is going to fire, or move it to its firing position by vehicle. Note that an 81mm mortar cannot ride on the back of a tank - the transport class of a tank is too low.

60mm mortars have medium speed, the same as US MMGs. That is fast enough to lag a minute behind an infantry platoon but basically maneuver with it. Since US infantry has good ranged firepower as it is, and often wants to avoid ranges under 100 meters to avoid SMGs anyway, regular infantry, MMGs, and 60mm mortars "go together" reasonably well.

I like to use an "overwatch" platoon (sometimes two) with an American company force. Use both MMGs together, as alone they do not have enough firepower. Use an HQ with your best combat rating, and if possible a command bonus as well (to handle so many teams). Then they stand off at 150-250 meters and blast. Keep a sharp eye out for enemy barrages, though, and bug out or shift positions if you see spotting rounds.

An overwatch infantry platoon can have 0-2 mortars, depending on the use you have for it, how much maneuvering it will have to do, available early fields of view, etc. Another trick here is to send the weapons HQ along, to command the MMGs and mortars when the regular infantry moves out. The teams pass from the infantry to the weapons HQ and back again as the need arises.

The alternative use is an FSE, based either around the weapons HQ or the company HQ. Give it 2 mortars, sometimes the 50 cal (also slow and limited ammo, and with enough range you don't need to close), and FOs or sharpshooters if you like. You can also split these with company HQ+50cal+1 60mm as one FSE, and weapons HQ+2 mortars as another.

Many German company types have 4 HMGs and 2 81mm mortars, and a weapons HQ. All the weapons teams are slow speed, but pack a good punch at range. A useful "tasking" of these support elements is to divide them into two mini FSEs, one under the weapons platoon HQ, the other under the company HQ. Each with 2 HMG and 1 81mm mortar. They will fit on 2 vehicles, though one can't be a tank (to hold the mortar).

Set up the HMGs spread to the limits of command range, with the HQ in the middle spotting for the mortar behind it, and staying hidden whenever possible. The HMGs can engage enemy infantry, and the mortar can suppress any enemy MGs that try to duel with them. Another division of labor between them is the HMGs do open ground (and brush, and scattered trees), while the mortar can handle woods. When needed, it can also smoke an enemy tank or what not, to give an HMG time to relocate to a safer spot.

[ 08-05-2001: Message edited by: JasonC ]

[Stixx]

Thnx guys, certainly some useful info there.

[CombinedArms]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Richard Cuccia, the PiggDogg:

2 inch mortars at moderate range (up to maybe 300 meters) are gun killers. You see, there are these little magnets on the tips of their shells that direct them onto the barrels of enemy guns and mortars.

By the way, the gun killer part is correct, while the magnet part is pure speculation on my part.

Richard<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think both 2" and 60mm mortars are such good gun killers--seeming to be magnetized to the enemy gun-- because of their high ROF. I've dumped whole ammo loads of 155mm FO artillery on a gun and never got it, yet light mortars with HQ spotters often kill guns in the first minute of fire. My experience suggests to me that in CM it takes a direct hit on a gun in a foxhole to kill it and the size of the blast doesn't matter that much. Mortars firing at short ranges have pretty high accuracy and high ROF, so they're very likely to actually hit and kill the target. Hence, gun killing is an excellent use of light mortars. When I suspect there will be hidden enemy guns, I try to manuever mortars into a protected position with an HQ providing good overwatch, then wait for the guns to expose themselves. When they do, down come the mortars.

[LGMB]

Soldier,

I always group them under a spare platoon commander or an HQ unit of some kind. 60mm is useless since its inacurate and requires LOS.... so they are only effective in big groups. Same thing for MG's. Group em and they can REALLY put out some firepower.

[PVLLVS MAXIMVS]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lord General MB:

Soldier,

I always group them under a spare platoon commander or an HQ unit of some kind. 60mm is useless since its inacurate and requires LOS.... so they are only effective in big groups. Same thing for MG's. Group em and they can REALLY put out some firepower. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I group my mortars in however many groups I have extra HQ's for, or, failing that, I keep one ofmy reserve platoons with them for C&C.

I dont like to group my MG's to much tho. In my experience a group of MG's is good for only two things : Looking impressive, and drawing God's Own Arty Barrage down on their silly little heads. With MG's, I much prefer to spread them out, and try to get them all to have LOS on the same target from different angles.

[ 08-08-2001: Message edited by: PVLLVS MAXIMVS ]

[Mr. Johnson--]

you losers, the german, 50mm mortar is the best. Super high rate of fire.

[Chad Harrison]

the US 60mm mortar can be very effective against soft targets (guns/infantry) in woods. their biggest drawback is the minimum range of 100m. that makes them almost useless is they are moving with a platoon in even remotley dense terrain. i use them to cover a platoon as its advances from about 150-200m if possible. IMO that is their most effective range.

[David Aitken]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>KiwiJoe wrote:

Against infantry in trees they are deadly. It seems like 80% of the shells tree-burst. With the high rof they can cut up and break a platoon inside a turn allowing your infantry to rush them with great results.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stalin's Organ would disagree with you there. I was playing a PBEM with him with randomly picked forces, and I ended up with about two and a half companies of green Polish troops. At night. I grouped all the mortars together (about, what, ten or twelve of them), with a company HQ as spotter. I saw one of his platoons run into a small patch of trees up ahead so I plastered it. It was very dramatic and amusing, but apparently I barely caused a couple of casualties.

In my opinion 2in mortars should stay with their platoons (which is also historically accurate), and provide that extra bit of firepower and suppression in a firefight. This can be very useful in a woods encouter where no other support weapons can be brought to bear. As it happens, in the most recent turn of my current PBEM with Lawyer, a 2-incher of mine was shelling a gun of his, and seemed very effective. That seems to be what they're good for – short-range, pinpoint suppression.

PS. CMplayer –

[Stalin's Organ]

'strue - he did, and an awesome sight it was. IIRC it went on for a turn or 2, and in the last few seconds of the final turn 1 squad lost 3 or 4 casualties and that was it.

mind you this was blind area fire - if you have some idea where the enemy squads are - even just nationality markers - and can target them then you're probably going to do a bit better.

[Cybeq]

The light mortar. It brings a smile to my face. I have no experience with the German 50mm so I will restrict my comments to the Brit 2 inch and U.S. 60mm. I "usually" will not group my light mortars into arty parks preferring to alot one per platoon. The reason is because it always seems like the platoon that needs a little HE help is out of LOS of any arty park I have created. You lose firepower by spreading your light mortars out but you gain flexability. To me that is more important. I'd rather have a little firepower where I need it than a whole bunch hiding in some useless corner of the map.