What do you choose first? Infantry, Artillery or Armour?

[Beer_n_Pretzels]

If you are playing a Combined Arms Quick Battle vs a human opponent, on the default map (village, moderate trees, small hills).

- What would you choose first?

- What would you consider as the core of your force?

- How would this choice affect your tactics?

I would be interested to hear from Grogs, hardcore PBEMer's and maybe even the denizens from Cesspool

[Jarmo]

I used to always first fill up my tank allocation, but I seem to be shifting to first getting the infantry.

Similarly, I used to think I have a tank force, supported by infantry.

Now, on occasion, I seem to have an infantry force with tank support.

Arty and fortifications come later.

But as I'm writing, I just noticed one thing.

If I'm the defender, I first fill my infantry and support.

If I'm attacking, the tanks come first.

My primary aim is still to kill the enemy tanks, the rest handles itself.

[M. Bates]

Artillery first, as often that can be a squeeze to get the right value.

Then tanks, infantry, AT guns.

[Slapdragon]

I start off with infantry - since it is the core unit in holding ground, and then move to either artillery or amour. Usually support weapons fill up my list.

[Hans]

In the Attack order of consideration

Artillery

Armor

Infantry

Vehicles

Support

In the Defense

Artillery

Infantry

Fortifications

Support

Armor

Vehicles

I vary this of course, especially if I don't buy fortifications stuff and go for a mobile defense.

[Matthew_Ridgeway]

Field Kitchen Units. An Army fights on its stomach after all.

[Bimmer]

I almost always purchase my infantry core first, regardless of disposition. Everything else is there to support the infantry, IMHO, so artillery and armor choices are tailored to the infantry force and mission.

[Guest Andrew Hedges]

It depends. In smaller battles, I usually pick infantry first because I typically want to make sure I can get a minimum amount of infantry and support weapons; that's more critical than whether I end up fielding Hetzers or StuGs or Pz IVs.

In larger battles, I often pick the tank force first, to make sure I can get what I think I'll need in a larger battle, and then go to the infantry.

In all cases, however, I usually end up fiddling with things afterwards to make sure I've used up as many points as I can.

[Bullethead]

Normally, regardless of situation, the order in which I pick units is artillery (almost always includes TRPs), infantry, armor. This is because I view artillery as the decisive weapon, infantry as the exploiter of artillery's success, and tanks as support for infantry. Any points left over go into the "support" category, almost always for a couple of snipers, followed by something mission-specific like ATGs or flamethrowers.

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-Bullethead

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria.

[Jarmo]

I wonder if the way of thinking makes any actual difference to the way of fighting.

Could an outside observer tell the difference?

Would my force actually be so different from say, Bulletheads? Despite us shopping in reverse order.

Would you guys be willing to actually do the choises for this setup and post your selection here?

For example, the settings already mentioned in the beginning, an american attack,

december and good weather.

[Subvet]

Recently I started buying:

1. Infantry

2. Arty

3. Armor

4. Support

5. Vehicles

And if I'm defending I'll buy fortifications before Vehicles.

[109 Gustav]

I usually just start off with a basic force of inf, armor, a little arty, and some support. Then I tweak, tweak, and tweak my units over and over until I use up all but one or two points and I have a well balanced force.

I have agonized for half an hour on whether I want a rifle toon and a veteran 57mm ATG, or a paratroop toon and a regular gun.

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Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat.

But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown.

And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing.

-Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska

[chrisl]

It depends as much on which side I'm playing--with the US I'll pick the arty first (don't leave home without at least one 81 mm FO--lots of rounds, cheap, and effective for pinning or smoke). Then I'll buy infantry, and depending on my mood go to vehicles or armor. Support weapons are less important to buy separately as the allies because the infantry units come with lots.

As the german, usually the infantry comes first, then support weapons, then arty and armor.

I rarely choose the tanks first (even in an armor battle I'll probably choose some infantry first)

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Slayer of the Original Cesspool Thread.

[Beer_n_Pretzels]

This is good stuff. For those who choose infantry first, is that a reflection of your CM experience? Or is because you feel infantry is more durable?

[chrisl]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Beer_n_Pretzels:

This is good stuff. For those who choose infantry first, is that a reflection of your CM experience? Or is because you feel infantry is more durable?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

reflection of my SL experience, backed up by CM experience.

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Slayer of the Original Cesspool Thread.

[Slapdragon]

Same with me. Tractics (my first WW2 game), then SL taught me Infantry was the queen. It was what you needed to use right to fight the battle. Everything else either kills infantry or kills things that kill infantry, or moves infantry real fast.

[Jarmo]

I just made the purchases for a quick battle. Here's the way I do it:

1000 pt attack, gives me 1500 points to go around.

In order of appearance:

1 Infantry company

2x M10 (to kill the possible big game)

1x M4(105) Sherman (infantry support)

1x M8 Howitzer (filler, I could have taken a priest, but I like these)

1x 81mm mortar FO (to kill the AT guns, or for smoking)

1x155mm (to root out the devil)

2x M20 cars (usually come in handy)

1x M3A1 HT (infantry support, it just keeps on firing)

1x Infantry platoon (filler)

Oops! 4 points over.

I switch one M20 to a 1917 HMG.

1498 pts, close enough.

All regulars. I usually don't like to spend on veterans.

[GI Tom]

This is an interesting topic. I never really thought about it until I saw this question. Now that I do think about it, I tend to fall into a habitual choice pattern for forces.

I find myself getting my armor first. But, and this may not make sense, before I buy my armor, I've already thought about what type of infantry I'll be using.

If it's combined arms for example, I'll most likely choose the Brits as my choice if I'm the allies as I love the fact that mortars and those lovely little piats are built in. Therefore, when I'm choosing my armor, I already have a good idea of how much infantry I'll be getting. But for some odd reason, I still choose my armor first. That now seems odd to me.

Followed by the armor and infantry I tend to go artillery, support and vehicles.

So I'm not sure what that really says to me, but I will agree on this, Infantry IS the Queen of battle. I always make that a priority and will go back and drop armor or something else to get more infantry if I think I'll need it.

Great topic.

GI Tom

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Think before you POST, TEST before you cry BUG and take a "Time-Out" break before you counter-flame the guy that just called you a Plutonian ButtMonkey---Madmatt

[Beer_n_Pretzels]

OK. following on from Jarmo, I would choose this 1500pt British Attack Force (all regular unless stated).

Infantry:

- Inf Coy

- Vet Inf Platoon

Artillery

- 3" Mortar FO

- 4.5" FO

Support:

- 2 x Vickers MMG

Tanks:

- Archer

- 3 x Sherman V

Vehicles:

- Humber Scout car

- Wasp Flamethrower Carrier

- 2 x MMG Carriers

- 3 x M5A1 Halftracks

[John Hough]

I sorta think of everything together, and how my purchases interact with each other. An example, my purcasing process for a 1000 point german defense:

First, look at the various infantry options available to me, keeping in mind I probably want to spend close to the 200 point limit on both armor and artillery. I don't have enough points to buy two companies of anything but volksgrenadiers, but that doesn't give me as many MGs as I'd like in a defense, and would leave me low on points for arty and armor. I settle on a panzer grenadier company (motorized), for some pretty good infantry, 4 machine guns, 2 mortars, and 2 spare HQ units. I consider attatching another motorized infantry platoon, but I don't really like doing that unless I have to. The armor purchase is greatly simplified by my preference to always have at least 2 AFVs working together; about the only thing I can afford is 2 stugs or 2 hetzers, and I choose the stugs for their increased anti-infantry ability. Again, I like to have 2 FOs, and I pick 81mm mortars and 105mm arty. A few points left, and I buy a veteran sharpshooter and a pair of shrecks. Oops, 15 points left. To much to waste, but too little to do anything with, so I get 120mm mortars instead of the 105, leaving me with just enough points for a veteran 20mm flak gun.

So I have:

Company HQ

3x Motorized infantry platoon

Platoon HQ

4x HMG42

2x 81mm mortar

81mm mortar FO

120mm mortar FO

2x Sturmgeshutz III

2x Panzershreck

veteran sharpshooter

veteran 20mm flak

A reasonable force, against either of those allied forces, though I'm gonna have to be smart about using my stugs and ambushing with the infantry.

-John

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sometimes i'd like to kick your f-ing head

but i guess you're just a human too

-EMBRACE, "SAID GUN"

[Hans]

For an Axis attack in the format above I would select:

1 Rifle Co

1 Rifle Plt (split and used as scouts and flank guards, Plt Ldr as weapons off.)

1 Pioneer Plt

2 Schrek

2 HMG

2 Pz IV's

1 Lynx (or Puma or Ht for recon)

1 75mm FO

2 81mm FO

1 120mm FO

2 Puma (or gun armed HT)

All Regulars.

[Hunter]

In my last game I bought Infantry first but I found that I often never got around to my tanks in time! Because I tend to '+' my way through every unit every turn if I can, I will try and buy the more expensive units first next time I think.

Note that this is a different consideration than most people have mentioned, and it depends upon your style of play.

Bruce

[Bimmer]

The reason for choosing infantry first is that, IMHO, it is the core around which everything else operates. As a previous post said (paraphrase): everything else supports the infantry. If you run out of arty or armor your infantry can still operate effectively if handled carefully; the reverse is not often true.

Another point: I am one of those players who tend to purchase in reasonably historical measures. I like buying whole companies, limiting support to the sort and number of weapons that would likely be available, and sections or platoons of armor and support vehicles. Some mixing and matching occasionally, but I try to stay close. I have found no real disadvantage to this in play, and I prefer the simplicity and inherent flexibility of coherent small unit organizations.

[Beer_n_Pretzels]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bimmer:

Another point: I am one of those players who tend to purchase in reasonably historical measures...I have found no real disadvantage to this in play, and I prefer the simplicity and inherent flexibility of coherent small unit organizations.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is very good point. The more specialised 'toys' you buy, the more micro management that is required. I have found that this can often be a distraction in a very tense battle.

It is also possible to run into trouble by purchasing units to counter enemy units you suspect your opponent will purchase. Nothing worse than purchasing a Hetzer and your opponent had bought infantry...

[Wisbech_lad]

Infantry first (a co.)

Then tailor the rest to fit the expected mission, or take what the PC gives me.

I find that CM plays best at the "reinforced Co." level, i.e. 500-2000 pts. Above that both me and my PC are struggling!

And some of the large scale scenarios seem to play, tactically, the same as a company level one, just three times larger! And while I can accept a Major having detailed say over a squad's actions, or a individual tank (Let's site that HMG there) I can't see a lt-colonel micromanaging to the same extent, that's what his company commanders are for.