Need to find info on Panther II's

[Ralph Beaman]

Doing study for graduate school on "Hitlers Secret Weapons," i have found short articles which mentions the Panther II in books, but no tech data, drawings or specs. Are there any out there? What about synthetic fuels and lubricants for Panzer Armie?

[jgdpzr]

Jentz' "Germany's Panther Tank: The quest for Combat Supremacy" has some decent info. about this project.

The hull, with a G turret, sits about 40 minutes away from me in the Patton Museum in Fort Knox, so I see it fairly frequently. Looks like a Panther on steroids if you ask me.

[Gen-x87]

Did this thing ever see combat?

Gen

[Warmaker]

No, it never did enter production. This and a slew of other German panzer projects were in the works. For example, there were supposed to be the E-series of panzers. IIRC there were supposed to be the E-50, E-75, and E-100. The numerical designations referred roughly to their weight classes. I've seen drawings and a built turret for the E-50 and it is supposed to be a replacement for the Panther (with the King Tiger's 88mm) while the E-75 (128mm gun? Can't remember clearly) is supposed to be a replacement for the Koenigstiger. The E-100 though I've never seen drawings but I've heard of them. Think of them as a more "practical" Maus Super Heavy Tank. Sloped armor was the plan of the day for these things and whatever neat little gadgets the Germans seemed to be able to develop during the war.

One of the key features of the E-series was that they were supposed to have been more efficiently built for production purposes. In addition, as many parts as possible were to be interchangeable. All this was to ease Germany's logistical nightmares a little.

[PawBroon]

Due to the HUGE success of Panther I, when it was finally blown sky high by the good guys in a Firefly (if not producers of U571) or by the courageous gunner of the severely outnumbered Stuart (if you are...), Panther II was scheduled to be released for the next summer but James Cameron would have no part in something that had no water in, around, above or about it.

So then the project was aborted, people commited suicide all around the world.

Nicole Kidmann divorced Tom Cruise and that pretty much wraps it up.

[Guest Babra]

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panth2.htm

[MikeyD]

Panther II was designed because, much to the shock of the German designers, Soviet anti-tank rifles could pierce the new Panther's lower side hull armor! Yikes! But they soon found that hanging soft metal skirts to shield the small area between the upper hull side and the wheels did the trick. This simple correction meant there was no longer any need to beef-up the Panther.

And I second the nomination of the Jentz book for best buy.

[ramor]

There was a book out years ago by Uwe Fiest(a former Panther commander)which had some info. The panther II had a smaller turret,a pigs head shaped mantlet and the same 88 as the king tiger as I recall.Also ease of production modifications and plans for a gyrostabilizer.There were also designs for a twin 30 mm antiaircraft panzer with a closed top turret on the panther chasis. Neither vehicle saw combat to the best of my knowledge.

[offtaskagain]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ramor:

.There were also designs for a twin 30 mm antiaircraft panzer with a closed top turret on the panther chasis. Neither vehicle saw combat to the best of my knowledge.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That vehicle was called the Coelain or something like that. A few Flakpanzer IVs armed with twin 30s in a full turret were built. They were called Kugelblitz, meaning Ball Lightning. Those did see limited service in the last month or two.

[Warmaker]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ramor:

There was a book out years ago by Uwe Fiest(a former Panther commander)which had some info. The panther II had a smaller turret,a pigs head shaped mantlet and the same 88 as the king tiger as I recall.Also ease of production modifications and plans for a gyrostabilizer.There were also designs for a twin 30 mm antiaircraft panzer with a closed top turret on the panther chasis. Neither vehicle saw combat to the best of my knowledge.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That "pig's head" gun manlet is referred to as "saukopf." Or something like that, my German is pretty nonexistent

Yep, I forgot about the gyrostabilizers for the new panzers. That would've been interesting.

[von Lucke]

I think yr confusing the Panther Ausf F with the Panther II:

The Ausf F model was to have been a typical Panther chassis mounting the new schmal turret design (range-finder bulges on the sides, saukopf gun mantlet, thicker {120mm front / 60mm side} armor plate), but with the same 75L70 gun.

Further development of the schmal turm was planned, with the possibility of mounting an 88L71 and stabilized sights being considered, but not necessarily as part of the Panther series.

The Panther II, on the other hand, went into the design phase much earlier --- in 1943, as opposed to the Ausf F in 1945. The Panther II was to share the same hull as the Tiger II (shortened slightly --- the existing hull is missing 2 road-wheels on each side), but retain the original Panther turret. This conflict led to production delays for the Tiger II, and in the end, the Panther II project being sidelined in favor of the (proposed) E-50 design.

In the end, it all amounted to just another case of the German armaments ministry having too many irons in the fire all at once...