BTS: graphics request for CMBB: seperate bmps for KIA Infantry

[imported_Wildman]

The biggest problem with adding blood is sales.

If I remember correctly no animation or picture of blood and violent kills can be sold in certain countries. Much like swastikas are not allowed in Germany and elsewhere.

Plus if they EVER went retail they just bumped up the rating from PG to R.

That is a good reason not to do it, imagine no one in Germany being able to purchase the game!

[MikeT]

Wildman, I agree with your post. However it would also be an easy matter to permit us gamers to do our mods with blood spots and such. Other games have "dialable" graphics and some even have lockouts. However I don't feel that kids out be as attracted to CMBO as they would to a fighting type game. Personally I don't feel the need for flying body parts but I do like to have a graphic battlefield in the sense of keeping track of where combat took place. This would be the existing burning vehicles and even dead bodies. I would also like to have the option to "dirty" up a battle to show that we are reinforcements helping others that are already mixed up in a fight. The dirt would be already burning/smoking vehicles and even the dead and dying for both sides.

MikeT

[Seanachai]

Sigh.

Aitkin, you much respected lunatic, your arguments are always so reasonable. Where are the Heidmans of yesteryear?

We're going into this again, are we?

Let me begin by saying that Tiger is a well-liked and contributing member of this community, and then let me ask him this:

For what purpose, Tiger, do you wish to have the ability to Mod 'Unit Elmination' markers? What do you have in mind, lad, both in terms of visual representation, and the purpose for it? Until questions like this are answered, everyone's opinions are just another bargee over issues that should have been laid to rest long ago.

To make my question more pointed: you've raised a sensitive and argumentative topic. Did you do it for any reason other than to see the same goddamn arguments, concerns and anger thrown about, or was their a point to your post? If so, then state it.

I, personally, think the only point of 'Unit Elimination' markers is just that, and their ability to convey that knowledge is all I ask or want. I have chimed in before on the 'more graphic' arguments, involving the 'I want to see organs flying about', as well as the unbelievably specious and even stupid 'it makes people aware of the consequences and reality of war' arguments, and I'm now working from an approach of accountability.

TIGER: Why do you want the ability to Mod the 'Unit Elimination' markers, and what do you intend to do with that ability?

Don't shuffle and piss around, lad, why've you inflicted this old argument on the community again?

[rleete]

Seanachai, while I totally agree with you on this one, it seems that your posts have been rather "testy" of late. Is the cess spilling over into the outerboards?

The idea of being able to modify any grapic in the entire system seems to be the main objective here. Don't you people ever just play the game?

[Fieldmarshall]

Listen most of you are blowing your tops for no reason..mods are fun..they have made(at least for me) CM a much neater game..I was for a long time(half the time I owned the game) determined never to get Terrain mods(I thought it might ruin the traditionality of the game) well I was wrong it made the game cooler, that is my opinion..if Tiger wants to or wants to know if he can make a dead body mod, because he thinks it will make the game better, and more entertaining for him..then let him, what business of it is yours..he just wanted to know if he could, not why he shouldnt or how he should do it if he could, just answere the mans question, dont berate him, his mods are his business, and if he wants to post them its your own business to download them, if you dont like it, dont harass the man, just ignore the damn mod SHEESH!!!

-Fieldmarshall

[Tiger]

Aitken , your arguments just do not hold up. Eyecandy is for the players, by the players, and nobody has the right to decide for everyone else what is useless eyecandy.

That said, the dead soldiers lying on the ground are more than simply unit elimination markers. They serve as a graphical representation of a squad of men, soldiers, who have for all intents and purposes become casualties in a battle.

If modding casulties bothers you so much then perhaps you should switch to hex and counter type boardgames. I daresay that Combat Mission's popularity has been enhanced by the mod community rather than degraded by it.

If modding casualties offends someone's personal feelings, then they simply do not download and install it.

This would require no extra bmps to be supplied by BTS; simply have the casualty models make calls to a different set of bmp #'s, which use the normal soldier uniforms as they work now. This would allow players to mod the casulties if they so choose.

Your arguments Aitken about being disrespectful or this being unnecessary eyecandy are poor attempts to lead the question about mod-able casualties astray on some meaningless tangent.

Plain and simple: there doesn't have to be a reason to be able to mod something, unless it interferes with the functioning of the game, is too time-consuming to implement or BTS just doesn't give a rat's ass.

There needs be no reasons supplied to mod casualties other than the same reason to mod tanks or infantry uniforms or terrain, etc.

-Tiger

[David Aitken]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Fieldmarshall wrote:

Listen most of you are blowing your tops for no reason..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure I'd characterise any of the participants in this discussion as "blowing their top".

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>if Tiger wants to or wants to know if he can make a dead body mod, because he thinks it will make the game better, and more entertaining for him..then let him, what business of it is yours..he just wanted to know if he could, not why he shouldnt or how he should do it if he could, just answere the mans question<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are mistaken – he was requesting that BTS program the ability of eliminated unit markers to be modified with unique textures. I think he's been around quite long enough, and had enough experience, to know whether or not it's possible.

You sound more like you're "blowing your top" than anyone here. I might suggest you check your facts before you jump in with such an incoherent ramble.

[gunnergoz]

The issue of KIA bitmaps is actually a wimpy solution for the jaded CM player looking to add a more authentic feel to the gaming experience.

If one wants to "spiff up" the suspension of disbelief with CM, all one need do is as follows, prior to and during play:

-put a dead animal behind the desk and let it ripen for a few days

-urinate in the other corner

-fail to shower for a week

-pick fleas and ticks off of neighborhood animals and let them loose into a close-knit woolen shirt which one then wears

-go without food and sleep for several days in a row

-stand in the middle of the freeway and run willy-nilly in front of the moving traffic (this gets the adrenaline into the appropriate level)

-invite a serial killer to live in the home, leave the doors unlocked and wait around unarmed to see what he'll do next (builds up tension and fear)

-Turn the air conditioner on to freezing for several days, then full heat for several more, being sure to leave the oven and stove lit and burning and all windows shut

-back a diesel bus into the garage and leave it running with the exhaust piped into the home

Once the above "mods" have been installed into your lifestyle, you'll care less about little blood splatters on your deceased digital troops.

[Fieldmarshall]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken:

You are mistaken – he was requesting that BTS program the ability of eliminated unit markers to be modified with unique textures. I think he's been around quite long enough, and had enough experience, to know whether or not it's possible.

You sound more like you're "blowing your top" than anyone here. I might suggest you check your facts before you jump in with such an incoherent ramble.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will bloody well ramble all I want its my god given right to ramble just like it is yours, god knows you exercise it enough....

-Field

[Fieldmarshall]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gunnergoz:

The issue of KIA bitmaps is actually a wimpy solution for the jaded CM player looking to add a more authentic feel to the gaming experience.

If one wants to "spiff up" the suspension of disbelief with CM, all one need do is as follows, prior to and during play:

-put a dead animal behind the desk and let it ripen for a few days

-urinate in the other corner

-fail to shower for a week

-pick fleas and ticks off of neighborhood animals and let them loose into a close-knit woolen shirt which one then wears

-go without food and sleep for several days in a row

-stand in the middle of the freeway and run willy-nilly in front of the moving traffic (this gets the adrenaline into the appropriate level)

-invite a serial killer to live in the home, leave the doors unlocked and wait around unarmed to see what he'll do next (builds up tension and fear)

-Turn the air conditioner on to freezing for several days, then full heat for several more, being sure to leave the oven and stove lit and burning and all windows shut

-back a diesel bus into the garage and leave it running with the exhaust piped into the home

Once the above "mods" have been installed into your lifestyle, you'll care less about little blood splatters on your deceased digital troops.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is quite a life you lead.

[Slapdragon]

At one point there was going to be no dead body marker, since a "dead" unit is not a bunch of stiffs on the ground with organs hanging out (aka Myth) but a units that is no longer capable of functioning. A dead unit marker was added so that people could track when and were a unit disapeered. It could just as easily be a small cross instead of one unit marker, and would probably be less confusing that way.

But, it is totally different that the mods, like the shell markers that show artillery bombardment. The mods for tanks and uniforms allow the game to become more realistic looking like spending another hundred dollars on your Tractics models could in years past. Not perfectly realistic (since most of us do not play with unit settings that small) but nice looking.

So, while it may be fun to mod them into a splash of blood and gore, it is not really the point of the marker. I do not think it is a big deal one way or another, but I think that the point of adding dead bodies which would never show up at the scale we use the game is just an added bit of sickness for sickness sake.

[Seanachai]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by R_Leet:

Seanachai, while I totally agree with you on this one, it seems that your posts have been rather "testy" of late. Is the cess spilling over into the outerboards?

The idea of being able to modify any grapic in the entire system seems to be the main objective here. Don't you people ever just play the game?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, on behalf of 'we people' (are you referring to my family, their ethnic forebearers, or members of the Peng Challenge Thread? I find those who speak of 'you people' deeply suspect) are you speaking to me, or exercising your self-perceived right to create groups of enemies that you will then round up and put into camps?

If you are addressing myself and my family, then I have to say no, I am, sadly, the only member of my family that plays CM. And not by want of missionary work, I might add.

As for your accusation that my posting here is 'the Cesspool spilling over', I have to say that I am working very hard to be courteous to you. Your statement right now seems to indicate that because I'm a poster in the Peng Challenge Thread, that any opinion that I might post elsewhere is so much ****e, and is a wortwhile basis for dismissing anything I have to say.

This despite the fact that I have many, many times previously addressed this same goddamn question, expressed my opinion about it, and feel, I think, quite rightly, that my opinion is every bit as valid anothers, and certainly more valid than your dismissing it because of my 'association' with the Peng Challenge Thread.

I asked Tiger to explain why he wanted to Mod this specific resource, which has been a point of major contention on the forums, rather than questioning the ability to Mod resources in general. If you can't understand why I might raise that specific point, and then insult me for asking the question, then I can only say that the Outer Boards are far more prone to useless **** and personal attacks then I thought.

Perhaps you'd prefer that, as I'm a participator in the Peng Challenge Thread, I have a specific mention to that fact in my signature? Or perhaps wear a yellow 'Star of Peng' on my garments when I visit the rest of the CM Forum? Just so the rest of the community knows that my personal, filthy opinions can be dismissed because they belong to one of 'those people'.

[Pzman]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slapdragon:

but I think that the point of adding dead bodies which would never show up at the scale we use the game is just an added bit of sickness for sickness sake.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe it is sick but...that s the reality of war people die or did you forget?

[ 07-22-2001: Message edited by: Panzerman ]

[David Aitken]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Tiger wrote:

Eyecandy is for the players, by the players, and nobody has the right to decide for everyone else what is useless eyecandy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BTS does. If you expect them to expend effort in allowing you to alter their game in particular ways, you can expect them to be opposed to it if it perverts their vision of what they want the game to be.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>That said, the dead soldiers lying on the ground are more than simply unit elimination markers. They serve as a graphical representation of a squad of men, soldiers, who have for all intents and purposes become casualties in a battle.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That sounds like two different ways of saying the same thing. It doesn't explain why the marker should be splattered with blood.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Your arguments Aitken about being disrespectful or this being unnecessary eyecandy are poor attempts to lead the question about mod-able casualties astray on some meaningless tangent.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed the discussion has developed somewhat, so I'm not surprised that you find some of what I've been saying irrelevant to your original post. Only BTS can answer your question, so I'm not sure why you're bothered by the subsequent discussion, considering that the alternative is having your post disappear off into the archives. What is relevant to you is that BTS are unlikely to specifically move to allow you to do things with their game which they don't approve of. You are of course free to create bright yellow Shermans and soldiers in pink catsuits of you so desire, and BTS can't stop you. But when you request that they allow you to introduce blood and gore into the game when they have expressed their desire to avoid this, you are unlikely to see any progress. Moreover, many of us would protest at BTS spending time, even if they wanted to, catering for the desires of a small faction of CM players.

The answer to your request is likely to be 'no', if you weren't already aware, as this has been brought up before. The subsequent discussion is indeed irrelevant to some degree, but it's not exactly taking the thread off course, because there was nothing more relevant that could be said on the subject.

[David Aitken]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Panzerman wrote

Maybe it is sick but...that s the reality of war people die or did you forget?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you want sick, go and find a war. CM is a game, and most of us play games for enjoyment. Basing a game on a historical war is indeed questionable, but provided you keep it technical and leave out the politics, there is no reason why people should not enjoy battling each other with realistic weapons. Where it becomes seriously questionable is where you introduce the element of human suffering. We must remember that a game is for entertainment. No-one wants unpleasant elements in their entertainment, so any unpleasantness must be perversely enjoyable in order for the creators to include it. This, of course, brings us to the perpetual violence-in-entertainment debate, which I do not intend to pursue here. Suffice it to say that anyone who wants blood and gore in CM does so because it gives them some form of satisfaction or pleasure – maybe because they enjoy the realism, or maybe because they just like seeing people die. Either way, it is questionable to have graphic violence in an entertainment product, and especially so where it can be seen to recreate the historical suffering of specific groups of people. CM is justifiable as an impartial technical simulator, but as soon as it starts to recreate death and suffering, it enters very shaky ground in moral terms.

[Tiger]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>You are mistaken – he was requesting that BTS program the ability of eliminated unit markers to be modified with unique textures. I think he's been around quite long enough, and had enough experience, to know whether or not it's possible.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't patronize me Aitken. It really shows your true lack of character. I certainly do not know whether or not it is possible or not. I rather think that it is possible, but only depends on how receptive BTS is to their fans.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>You sound more like you're "blowing your top" than anyone here. I might suggest you check your facts before you jump in with such an incoherent ramble. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aitken, you haven't changed since I came to this forum last July 2000. The words. Here they come: pompous, holier-than thou, patronizing arguments based on nothing more than personal egotism.

You can not give a valid argument that casulties should not be mod-able other than "it's disrepectful", "it's just more eyecandy", and "you should already know if its possible or not". Pretty much grasping at straws, aren't you?

Disrepectful: has no bearing whatsoever on mods, no more than making tank mods is disrepectful.

Just more eyecandy: nothing wrong with more eyecandy, unless you'd like to go back to playing checkers.

Should know if it's possible or not already: quite the opposite, I know it's possible already. Whether it's feasible or BTS has the time or inclination to do it is up to them.

I do think it would add more immersion and add to the enjoyment for those that care to use it. I once had a picture of a casualty that I had cropped from a larger QB picture, then I added gaping wounds and a pool of blood underneath that I had posted on some other topic about people using crew as infantry (i.e. this is why crew don't play rambo or some such). Anyway I thought it may be too graphic for some so I removed the link from that particular reply. Do you know someone from BTS (Steve) went in to my post and put the link to the pic back in?

Aitken, stop telling people what's right for them or what you think they shouldn't be allowed to have based on nothing more than the enjoyment of arguing, because right now you're pissing into the wind with what you've said so far.

[David Aitken]

Tiger wrote:

Don't patronize me Aitken. It really shows your true lack of character.

(snip)

Aitken, you haven't changed since I came to this forum last July 2000. The words. Here they come: pompous, holier-than thou, patronizing arguments based on nothing more than personal egotism.

[Tiger]

Adding moddable casulties, the KIA models, that represent a fallen unit, can add immeasurably to the perception of the brutailty that is war. Anything less, i.e. a "bloodless game", is nothing but a slap in the face to all of those who have fought and died in any war. You want to sterilize it to make it more palatable, more "enjoyable", so you can have a clear concious while you sit in your comfy room with your slippers on and a beer or cup of coffee, while casually sending unit after unit to their pixelated, electronic deaths, so you can come here and tell people how disrespectful they are for wanting the true horror of war by having mod-able KIA dead bodies (sorry I meant "markers"), you have my utmost contempt.

Will BTS allow this? I doubt it. Besides the VRam it might cost, they're too comfortable with their bloodless entertainment to have the guts to make this possible.

Make mod-able casulties and we'll see how eager you are to send wave after wave to their certain deats for that one more "victory flag".

Of course like all mods it is optional whether you try it or not. Too bad the soldiers who died in WWII didn't have an option.

[Slapdragon]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzerman:

Maybe it is sick but...that s the reality of war people die or did you forget?

[ 07-22-2001: Message edited by: Panzerman ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They do die, but not in cartoon ways, and not usually so that they leave 20 meter wide slashes of deep read blood.

The first plane crash I ever covered was in Sioux City Iowa in summer of 1989. More than a hundred bodies covered the field or were trapped in the wreckage, but with afew exceptions, they were not hugely noticeable. You knew where someone died because a sleet would be laid on top of them if there was absolutely no hope of saving them (DOA). Even the walking wounded where hard to spot, a lot of them stumbled through the woods and showed up in one of the press areas.

People see a Friday the 13th movie and want to see that sort of gore in a game because it is "cool". That is why Myth has hunks of exploded flesh from a dead sim. But real life death is not as spectacular. The dead at Sioux City looked rather small. They occupied only a little space, and while they were always at the back of your mind, they were not great read splashes across the landscape. The landscape seemed to draw them in somehow, like it had already started the process of decomposition.

So I guess this is a choice between a fantasy gorefest and the realistic represntation of human remains on the battlefield. If it realistic, you wont see more than a dot at view 2 at 100 meters. You could search the whole game for a casualty at view 1, trying to see the splash of gore and humanity that your mod has created.

Sounds like a lot of fun to me.

[ 07-22-2001: Message edited by: Slapdragon ]

[Fieldmarshall]

Rationality is bleeding away apparently, David get a grip...ITS A BLOODY DAMN MOD!!!!,I am surprised this post has gotten the response it has...most of it mindless bickering, that is both un-necessary but also totaly ridiculous..so what, ok we all now know the answere to Tigers question..no, it is unlikely that BTS will model this, but they have wasted time, (e.g. Sturmtiger) it was a request, like so many others will not happen, ok, big deal its over, now why does it have to explode into a inane argument over MARKERS for gods sake, there should not be an argument, and even if there was one, it could be handeled in a frank, and rational manner, not a bunch of slobbering blabber mouthes just wanting to get their bloody names on the internet, this discussion should have ended by now, yes. So what?! So he wants dead body with blood markers, It doesnt matter if he wanted to replace it with blood...ITS HIS BUSINESS, and it has been answered, Good day to you all.

-Fieldmarshall

[ 07-22-2001: Message edited by: Fieldmarshall ]

[Tiger]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>You might find that fact and reason<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aitken, you have used no fact or reason other than some notion about 'disrepect', and that dead bodies represent nothing more than sterile unit KIA markers, nothing more. Something I disagree with based on the fact and reason that those dead bodies do represent a unit of men that has been eliminated in combat during the 'game' and that they can and perhaps should have more meaning.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I'm not telling you you're stupid or you're wrong, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No? Sounded like it to me. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds. You're as sterile in your thinking as the unit kill-markers you hold so sacred. Think about that. As long as I've posted on these forums David you've refused to open your mind to anything but the cold hard expected paths.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>...can't find any means of continuing other than trying to destroy me personally in order to destroy my argument, then I suggest that you bow out. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not hardly Aitkens. Give a man enough rope and he'll hang himself. You seem to be looking for a high-enough tree branch already. I've got a horse you can sit on ready.

Other than the personal reasons you have given David, what reasons based on fact have you or can you give to no mod-able casualty bmps? So far, "it's just eyecandy", "it's disrspectful", "they're just kill-markers so not important", and "you should know the answer already" just don't seem based on fact nor reason.

Only ones I can think of is the cost in vram usage, and if BTS just doesn't care to do it.

-Tiger

[ 07-22-2001: Message edited by: Tiger ]

[David Aitken]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Tiger wrote:

Adding moddable casulties, the KIA models, that represent a fallen unit, can add immeasurably to the perception of the brutailty that is war. Anything less, i.e. a "bloodless game", is nothing but a slap in the face to all of those who have fought and died in any war.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But you can never hope to recreate the entire human element of war. All that CM represents is a battle – not the lives of the soldiers, or their fears and anxieties, or how they contemplate the imminent battle – just the mechanics of how the battle is carried out.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>You want to sterilize it to make it more palatable, more "enjoyable", so you can have a clear concious while you sit in your comfy room with your slippers on and a beer or cup of coffee, while casually sending unit after unit to their pixelated, electronic deaths, so you can come here and tell people how disrespectful they are for wanting the true horror of war by having mod-able KIA dead bodies (sorry I meant "markers"), you have my utmost contempt.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you regard the game as not a game, but a Second World War simulator? How can you possibly enjoy playing it when you're killing hundreds of men and causing so much destruction? Presumably, as sitting in a comfy room with your slippers and your coffee is so unrealistic and disrespectful, every time you play you don full battledress, load up your rifle, cover the floor with several inches of mud and ask a neighbour to chuck grenades through the window?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Make mod-able casulties and we'll see how eager you are to send wave after wave to their certain deats for that one more "victory flag".

Of course like all mods it is optional whether you try it or not. Too bad the soldiers who died in WWII didn't have an option.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It appears that you want CM to shock its players with the realities of war, and you want the experience of playing the game to be unpleasant. If CM were a Second World War simulator, I wouldn't play it. If I were reenacting the deaths of hundreds of people in absolute realism, I couldn't possibly enjoy playing the game – and as I have said, it is a game, for the purposes of entertainment. If you want the realities of war, go and find a war. I am confident that most of us here want an enjoyable reality-based game, and don't care for the burden of guilt in 'killing' their pixellated soldiers.

We appear to have a direct conflict of opinion; I think that the game is respectful as long as it remains technical, whereas you think that it is respectful only if it represents war as it really is, with the human elements of fear and death, and all the other unpleasant aspects. I disagree with your argument because, as I have explained, anything that goes into CM goes in for the purposes of entertainment. If there is gore and suffering, we are enjoying said gore and suffering – if we didn't enjoy it, we wouldn't play, and therefore it wouldn't be in BTS's interest to include it. We can justify enjoying CM because it simulates armed conflict, rather than real war, which is an infinitely more complex and emotive issue.

So on the whole, I think your argument that CM should more realistically depict death and suffering because this would be more respectful is ill conceived. CM currently avoids the issue, as it should – as soon as BTS broaches the subject, they cannot possibly hope to deal with it successfully. To include the horrors of war in the overall drive for realism is to take the game into new and very difficult territory.

[Tiger]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>So I guess this is a choice between a fantasy gorefest and the realistic represntation of human remains on the battlefield. If it realistic, you wont see more than a dot at view 2 at 100 meters. You could search the whole game for a casualty at view 1, trying to see the splash of gore and humanity that your mod has created. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I fail to see your logic of relating a plane accident to someone getting hit by shells, fragments, bullets, ad naseum.

Also, who said having mod-able casualties means they get auto-modded into 'fantasy gore-fests"?

That's like saying no to having mod-able regular infantry uniforms because someone might make a shagadelic knit-top mod.

-Tiger

ps~ <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It appears that you want CM to shock its players with the realities of war, and you want the experience of playing the game to be unpleasant. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I want to have the option to mod a certain portion of the game that is not currently mod-able, for those that want it. Not to be told what I should be able to do based on someone's perceived morality of playing a game about death and killing that's good and wholesome and respectful, as long as you don't have to look at the ugly parts. Out of sight out of mind eh?

Let's make a game about war but leave out the parts that are not 'fun' out of respect for those that died. Sounds more disrespectful than anything to me as you end up glorifying it when you leave out the bad parts. It's like the movie Schindler's List but with all the bad stuff cut out of the film.... and then you watch it for the enjoyment of knowing there's nothing bad in it you'll have to see.

Having mod-able casualties is no more an issue than having mod-able tanks, vehicles, terrain, or uniforms. You still have given nothing but personal reasons Aitkens.

[ 07-22-2001: Message edited by: Tiger ]

[Fieldmarshall]

Aitken--were is your rational!? Listen it is a VIDEO GAME after all the realisme, the graphics, in the end it all boils down to a VIDEO GAME--I dont think I have to repeat myself--war veterans play this game--I doubt a red spot on a soldier is going to make them get up a sue the damn company over a SPOT! I love to build WW II models, if I make a diorama of a shot up soldier--am I being disrespectful..NO! I am showing the true face of war! Is SPR disrespectful because it shows the realitys of war(well not all but still) No, it takes no respect out of the game, if you put in a little blood, If you think about it--when a sqaud gets burned to death from a flamer even in CM its pretty grusome, so no you are wrong--the only disrespect would come if it was to model the gore for a sales purpose or to make fun of those who fought in World War II, so no, they would in no way be disrespectful.

-Field

[Seanachai]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Seanachai:

Actually, on behalf of 'we people' referring specifically to myself, my family, their ethnic forebearers, but not members of the Peng Challenge Thread...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I apologize to R_Leet. Mind, I find his screename distinctly odd, uncomfortable to type, and suspect, but the fellow himself seems quite alright. And perhaps I have been a bit testy of late. I blame this damn heat. Minnesotans are built for cold, dammit, not endless +90° heat.

Still, that's no bloody excuse for bad manners.

Here, Tiger, and Aitkin, make up your differences and arrive at some conclusion.

Tiger, David never insulted, attacked, nor belittled you personally. He's a man of strong opinions, is all. I, for one, after my recent foray into being a bit of a pillock against someone who hadn't attacked me, would prefer to see that sort of restraint acknowledged, and spread.

This is a hot button issue for many posters, and we remain a diverse and extemely ignorant and annoying community, all dedicated to the single purpose of playing The Game.

Oh, and hopefully having a bit of a jolly singsong with our mates, and coming to grips with why we post to each in the first place.