Holien Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Hi, I have done a quick search and found nothing and I am in middle of game. I have just been assualted by mass ranks of Ami's and had a 150 gun and MMGs ready to ambush them as they crossed the open. Much to my surprise and annoyance my MMgs fired one burst of fire and then the target moved out of sight. But the MMG's kept tracking the target and did not fire at any of the other targets in sight. The same happened to my 150 gun which did not fire at all as the target went out of sight early on before it could rotate and then it kept tracking it the full turn. Has anyone seen anything like this? Would it be considered a bug? It certainly pissed me off. The next turn I gave the gun no orders hoping it would aquire targets on its own, but again no dice and the carnage I had planned for did not happen and I am in serious Poo... H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoePrivate Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 The 150IG is a big slow gun, IIRC about 2 shells a minute, not sure of the wisdom of having it open up on moving targets, which I'm sure you can attest to now. The tracking of a target out of LOS was a feature many people wanted so no not a bug. I usually find it best to let the TacAI handle targetting for MGs, YMMV. If you want carnage then try to pin and place the enemy with MGs/mortars etc before opening up with the IG, hope you find something useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Unit quality may have something to do with it. The higher the quality, the better they do at targeting threats vs. poo. Have you tried area targeting to see if they will accept that and at least put some rounds near the enemy troops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted January 24, 2001 Share Posted January 24, 2001 Intelweenie is correct, area targeting is your friend with the 150mm infantry gun. It's blast is big enough that it will hurt any infantry nearby, so you don't have to be too precise about your targeting. ------------------ Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. -Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted January 24, 2001 Author Share Posted January 24, 2001 Fair point about the 150 gun and I know that was not what it was designed for. It seemed kinda of silly to target ground rather than men. Especially as the men are moving fast and you are liable to miss them and pummel a bit of earth. On the MMG front the tracking of a target seems silly when it goes out of sight and you have heaps of others to fire at. The men (targets) were crossing an open expanse of land and I had hoped that the MMG's would be able to hose the approach and do more damage than they did. (Which was nada) While not serving in the forces or ever having to run the gauntlet (other than paintball) it seemed a tad un realistic. But as a limitation of the game I will live with it and deal with it. It's great I am learning new things all the time and while I find things annoying at the time I deal with it and take it into account. Cheers for the responses.. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 Thinking more about the tracking of units out of sight that is unrealistic! If that was an enhancement can anyone give me some threads where it was discussed so I can better understand why it was asked for. To my simplistic mind if a unit goes out of sight and there are plenty more valid targets surely the AI should fire at those rather than let them all pass by? Any views please? Cheers H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Clark Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 I tried a quick search and could not find anything... If I remember correctly, it was added because of situations like this: A Tank is tracking a fleeing Bazooka squad. Bazooka squad runs behind a hill (out of sight.) Tank immediately begins tracking new target. Seconds later, Bazooka squad pops back up and brews up the tank. Now with the tracking a few seconds out of sight, it's less likely an old threat will pop back out and "surprise" a unit. That's how I remember it, but then I could just be insane... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Mr Clark is correct. This "fix" was spacially aimed at AFVs that otherwise started to turn their slow turrets to low threat targets, instead of concentrating on something that's temporarily out of sight. As for the original situation of targeting troops crossing open terrain, then perhaps it could even help to have the MGs also use area targets instead. They seem to do a nice suppressive fire in the area around the target point. If the enemy was moving perpendicular to the shooting they'd have to pass the bullet barrier... Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Mahone Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 I had similar situation happen to me twice under version 1.1. I'm not calling it a bug, so here I go. I was playing the "Punching a Hole" West Wall operation, and was killing infantry with my 2 panthers. I used one panther of "regular" status to "area fire" a building full of enemy troops. When I clicked GO, my tank decided to go back to firing at a lone squad up on a hill. The squad had been attacking an abandoned bunker's crew, and was no threat to him. I thought that was strange since it was a squad and not an anti-tank team. Especially since the squad was about 100m further away then the building full of troops. I shrugged it off and at the next turn reordered the tank to "area fire" the building. Unfortunately I got the same result as the first time. He went back to the lone squad on the hill, routed them, and then picked a more reasonable infantry target (but never the building). I've been playing ver. 1.1 for a while, and have seen this situation only one other time. Take note that the denied target was always insight. Also my units never targeted the wrong enemy units because of their greater threat capability. The weird thing is that this has only happened 2 times out of at least 30 or 40 missions. Just my two cents, -Head ------------------ "No man ever won a war by dieing for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." -General George S. Patton, Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisl Posted January 25, 2001 Share Posted January 25, 2001 Originally posted by Holien: Fair point about the 150 gun and I know that was not what it was designed for. It seemed kinda of silly to target ground rather than men. Especially as the men are moving fast and you are liable to miss them and pummel a bit of earth. With the 150 IG you don't have to get all that close for it to be effective, and you can area target where you think the enemy will be, not where he is--kind of like arty in thick woods. ------------------ "If you can taste the difference between caviar on a cracker and ketchup on a Kit-Kat while blindfolded, you have not had enough aquavit to be ready for lutefisk." (stolen from some web page about lutefisk) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted January 25, 2001 Author Share Posted January 25, 2001 Hi thxs for the responses I understand the 150 issue and I understand how to target at an area. I am dissmissive of firing at an area for 60 seconds in the open that I might hit something running through. The 150 was hidden and I only want to blow its location when I target at something specific. The MMGs were also hidden and again I specifically targeted a unit. All units continued to track after 20 secs of seeing the unit for the further 40 secs. That was 40 secs of missed fire against massed targets. By the time I could re-order there was only straggling units passing through. And the same thing happened. The 2nd time I allowed the 150 to pick targets and it choose not to fire. I know I am on thin ice regarding the 150 but the MMG's in a real life situation would have chosen other targets. As for tracking of units how long does the program track a unit before it decides to require? Also the tracking line followed the unit (red line) even though it could not be seen. (If it had not been a TCP / IP game I would post it to the BTS crew.) I did replay it several times and watch at ground level to see what was happening. If it is a feature of the game it will affect how I place units and when I decide how to open up. Thanks for the advice Olle. I have never tried that with the MMG to do area fire. If the units crossing the line take damage then that is a sure fire solution but a bit of a gamble if the opponent does not do what you are expecting. In the game I played that would have worked as I saw the charge comming. However, I seem to remember some threads saying that the way MMG fire is resolved does not take into account such a tatic and is resolved against a specific target. I have not done any research into the games mechanics on this so if any one can confirm that approach I would be grateful. On a further point raised by Head, in another game I had a similar situation. This time not with a tank. I had LOS from a 20mm AA gun to multiple Inf targets and a Churchill. Every turn I targeted the Inf as I knew I could do nothing against the Churchill and the Inf were closer and more of a threat I could deal with. Every turn the Damn crew wold ignore my instructions and re-target the Churchill. Which lucky for me was too far away and out of HE to hurt me. This happened 4 turns until I decided to try and move the AA Gun out of sight of the Churcill. (Clearly ID unit.) However just my luck when I broke sight the other player decided to move the Churchill back into sight and the damn duel continued. Again I realise that the game must have limitations and once I know them I can work round them. But I must question the ability to track hidden units (apparently) and the mentality of a gun crew who sould have realised after a couple of turns rapid fire that they were not going to destroy a Churchill head on with a 20mm Canon. But these are minor points in a game that I consider beyond belief for the level of detail and accuracy portrayed in a game that you can actually play and enjoy playing. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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