Krazh Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Hi all, I was playing Rune´s Reut Canal today against a friend, and observed something wery unusual, which might just have cost me the game. A Firefly and a Sherman were waiting back to back behind a building in a perfect ambush situation. Then, as I saw it a Panzer appeared in thin air before the Firefly, with it´s Cannon pointed at it and BAM..... Firefly gone. The Sherman with it´s rear to it began to turn it´s turret and BAM.... Sherman gone. What apparently happened is that the Panzer went past the Firefly unnoticed (one Tank lenght away directly in front of it, Firefly unbuttoned) two Tank lenghts past the corner before the Firefly noticed it. Is this normal? (Reut Canal is supposed to be in foggy conditions... but!) or is this a bug in the engine? Save game can be provided upon request... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipmonkey25 Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 I've never played that mission, but you might want to check in the mission editor. It's possible that the Tiger showed up as a preplanned reenforcement, which would explain the seemingly magical undetected position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Teleporting Tiger eh? I'll betcha they'll score high in Rarity for CMBB. It wouldn't suprise me if Adolf issue a request than one be built, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amidst_Void Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 "Save game can be provided upon request... " let me check that out, eh? Best regards, Amidst_Void@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Krazh: Then, as I saw it a Panzer appeared in thin air before the Firefly,<hr></blockquote> what, havnt you guys ever played red alert? looks like westwood ent. got the teleporter correct if BTS has it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJMello Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 LOS issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpig Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 You know what I'm thinking? Maybe it was because your tanks (Firefly and Sherman) were hiding? Were they on HIDE? I've seen some wacky behaviour among HIDEing tanks, and this actually sounds like something that happened to me once. The only difference being that I observed SOUND CONTACTS for the enmey tanks moving around before *BLINK*, a tank appearing near my HIDEing tanks and then leveling the boom boom, as it were, apon my lads without them even returning fire. (Now I NEVER hide my tanks. Never.) Did you have any SOUND CONTACTS prior to the materialization of said Tiger? Either way, it's annoying as hell. Gpig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazh Posted November 17, 2001 Author Share Posted November 17, 2001 No Hiding, LOS should not have been a issue since the Kraut tank should have been in plain view. Yes there was a sound contact prior, on the other side of the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 On it's face it sounds very odd. Though you have the fog, and then I don't know the experience level of the tanks... plus the speed of the Tiger, and then the good ol' stuff happens factor... How about a screen shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanaka Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Krazh: ...Yes there was a sound contact prior, on the other side of the building.<hr></blockquote> This tells it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Today I witnessed a Tiger driving past at least 3 infantry units at a range of less than 30 meters before being spotted (dusk, clear skies). The (regular)infantry was directly behind a line of bocage. The spotted the tank for the first time when it was already within 30 meters. They even lost it for a couple of moments (i.e. the Tiger briefly turned into a generic marker). As a long time CM'er it even surprised me. Shortly before that one of my ATG's was KO'd (also directectly behind bocage). Promptly after the kill 2 other Tigers just appeared, sitting in plain view of the gun, in the middle of the road. The gun never even saw what hit it. The range was about 150 meters. go figure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazh Posted November 17, 2001 Author Share Posted November 17, 2001 As you can see on the pics the Firefly is Veteran Here are pics: (they are 1200x1024 so I´ll just link them) Here it appears: http://www.itn.is/~sho/TT1.jpg Sound contact: http://www.itn.is/~sho/TT2.jpg BAM you´re dead: http://www.itn.is/~sho/TT3.jpg And you are next: http://www.itn.is/~sho/TT4.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 You are looking out over a field expecting the enemy to appear any minute but you get distracted for a few seconds. Should an enemy tank suddenly stand there as you look back again your first thought probably won’t be ”it must have teleported there”, but rather ”my that one really snuck up quickly” (or something to that effect). How could it be portrayed otherwise in the game, than the tank suddenly appearing, seemingly out of thin air? Things may look strange at times from our divine perspective. But it’s not really that strange if one consider that the delay in spotting and identifying the enemy represents the actual time it takes for an induvidual, or a collective of individuals, to comprehend the meaning of the information their senses has aquired. Just the other day I had a M-20 rushing round a corner going fast. About 20 meters and about a second or two later four German AFV’s suddenly materialised, virtually surrounding him. This was the time it took for the crew to realise what was happening. Nothing odd about it really, in real life it was about the time it takes to say ”shiiit” and, after another second or two, scream to the driver to turn around. By pure chance I had plotted a U-turn at that exact spotted so he made it out before anyone had a chance to react, nailing two of them with the nasty Ma Duce. How my crew in those few seconds managed to positively identify the enemy troop quality to green is less clear, perhaps they where just staring blank eyed as the M-20 roared past M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Is it me or do those tanks look buttoned? That limits you LOS big time. And I agree with Mattias explanation. Mind you if it had happened to me I would be as pissed off as the next tanker... H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazh Posted November 17, 2001 Author Share Posted November 17, 2001 They were unbuttoned until just before the tank appeared.. I can´t of course tell for sure if the Firefly was unbuttoned the moment the Panzer appeared at the corner without taking a look my opponents turn. I urge you to look at the save game to see just what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Krazh - sure you can tell. The info windows at the bottom of the screen read "buttoned", at 35 and 40 seconds, with the Firefly still alive. You were buttoned, in fog, with a LOS restricted to the left by the building wall you were right up against. There was no spotting chance until the Tiger cleared the building, beyond sound contacts. You spotted it 30 meters on, rather than 10, by which time it had pulled just past the alley and was turning both turret and hull toward you. It was moving along a road. Its top speed is about 10m/second. It took 3-6 seconds to move past the alley to where you see it. And then it had 5 seconds or more turning toward you (judging by the time distance, 35 and 40 seconds respectively, after it had appeared). So the question is, why did it take 5-10 seconds to spot a Tiger at point blank, instead of 1? It is a legitimate question. I suspect in *game* or program terms what happened to you, is some other unit spotted it just before the Firefly did - perhaps the infantry a bit farther on. When a unit is not the first to see something, the program institutes a delay before it can react to a sighting by another unit. It probably does not give the unit itself any further spotting attempts, to "shorten" this delay. From the standpoint of a player, there are four issues. It was foggy. You didn't have any infantry in the building the Firefly was hiding behind, to spot the tank before it came past the corner and pass on an "alert" - or elsewhere, looking down the road, for the same purpose. You were buttoned. And also, by positioning the Firefly so close to the building, you kept the possible LOS into the street "vertical", without any "lead" from the angle that would be created by being a bit away from the building. This meant the first -chance- to see the Tiger was when it was already right alongside, whereas a bit of angle and the same delay, would have given you the spot with the Tiger broadside. It was doubtless reasonable to do it your way, expecting a spot to be automatic and instant when a 57 ton tank rolls by 20 yards away. That is why I seperate the possible programming issue from the player controllable ones. But the second set may give you some ideas about how to prevent being stung by this issue the next time. For what it is worth. [ 11-17-2001: Message edited by: JasonC ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mud Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 Heh. Speaking of close encounters and, er, slow reactions, once when I defended the Hedge Maze map, one of my (by then, Rhino-equipped) elite Stuarts apparently drove right by the AI's elite King Tiger. At the end of the turn, they were literally only 8m away from each other, roughly back-to-back, with guns pointed forwards (i.e. also away from each other). Both were buttoned, so they *might* have traded MG fire in the initial jousting pass, but neither main gun had been used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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