Blackwatch Posted June 12, 2000 Share Posted June 12, 2000 I'm about halfway through James Jones' novel 'Thin Red Line'. Never have I read such a vivid (and horrifying) account of small scale infantry combat. I urge everyone who wants to get a better feel of what CM is simulating to read this book. The descriptions of C-for-Charlie Company's attack in 'The Bowling Alley' towards Hill209 makes me fully appreciate how WELL CM is done since I can visualize the whole thing as a CM battle (deployment of platoons, company mortars, MG etc.). Reading this will make you also appreciate what you DON'T see in CM (the blood, the terror, the insanity, and what's going on inside the soldiers' heads during the attack); there's nothing sanitized in this book. Not that I'm complaining about CM being sanitized, but this will give you the 'full monty' and you will appreciate your CM experience all the more for it. S! p.s. I haven't seen the movie and don't intend to. READ THE BOOK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted June 12, 2000 Share Posted June 12, 2000 STAY AWAY FROM THE MOVIE At all costs... It is worthless tripe. It has been the only movie I have been tempted to walk out in in my life. My pals and I were howling with open laughter before the show was half way over, and so were most of the rest of the audiance. It's been years since I red the book, however, and I can't remember it's details, other than I recall I enjoyed it. Z Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted June 12, 2000 Share Posted June 12, 2000 I ahve to agree with both posters here: TRL is one of the outstanding war novels of all times and really captures what goes on through teh collective conscious of a rifle company at that time and place so than normal stereotypes. And the criminal neglect of just about everything interesting or entertaining in the book when they made the movie is unforgivable... Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted June 12, 2000 Share Posted June 12, 2000 I've read Jones' book, and it's very good. It's a very human story of war, and anything but sentimental. Norman Mailer's THE NAKED AND THE DEAD (also about Guadalcanal, more or less) is good in some similar ways. THE THIN RED LINE as a movie is different, but I think it has its strengths. A lot of people seem to hate it because it's not a typical courage-centered war movie (even though it has some very exciting and realistic images of battle). But if you approach it as a portrait of the feelings (rather than the actions) of men in combat, thousands of miles from home, in a strange war with rules they don't understand, the movie becomes pretty powerful. I think the main problem people have with it is that it slides between different kinds of presentation, and some of these aren't very "war movie" at all. The tone shifts between fast-paced combat and slow, philosophical inwardness, and then to meditative shots that ask you to look at the island itself. But if you think all of these kinds of movie-making are valid, I can't think of anything (aside from Travolta's acting) that's truly bad about the movie. [This message has been edited by Martyr (edited 06-12-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumbo Posted June 12, 2000 Share Posted June 12, 2000 Hmm I will check out the book but actually I really liked the movie (much better than SPR anyway) but each to his own I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawtoothbarbie Posted June 12, 2000 Share Posted June 12, 2000 I agree with Martyr's points. The movie is good; it's just not all "war movie in standard presentation." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted June 12, 2000 Share Posted June 12, 2000 I have to disagree with Martyr here. TRL was billed as a straight war movie, so that's what I went to see. After a couple of hundred hours of paddling, whispering, and flashbacks, I realized that it was something completely different. No problem, I treated my bedsores, sat back and tried to enjoy it for what it was. Well, it sure was pretty, with the waving grass and all, but the dialogue, acting, and continuity were all poo-poo. I too laughed out loud at the end, more for my stupidity at sticking through it than anything else. I'm sure Malick didn't wake up one morning and say "My lord, I think I want to make a stupifyingly disconnected piece of dreck", but that's sure what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawBroon Posted June 12, 2000 Share Posted June 12, 2000 As it has been said here in France, SPR is a war movie and TRL is a movie about war. That's it. If you like the book, try War of the Rats from David Robbins about Stalingrad. You'll be drooling for a soon to be CM2 ------------------ Either he's dead or my watch has stopped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted June 12, 2000 Share Posted June 12, 2000 I agree: WAR OF THE RATS is a good one. I read it at night while at an academic conference, and the vivid story was a great antidote to the scholarly papers I was listening to all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted June 13, 2000 Share Posted June 13, 2000 Well Pawbroon, I won't disagree with SPR as being a "war movie", I really enjoyed it, despite it's many hollywoodifications, but I don't even think I'd call TRL a movie about war. I think it's more a movie about the director, and his own self-loathing. There are some really good scenes in TRL, and yes, some of the footage is breathtaking. But the over all lack of continuity and sad-sack whining of the main character is just pathetic. This is a film about the second world war shot with a vietnam era psychosis. And that sort of defeatist feeling was such an exception during that time that the movie looses almost all credibility in the first fifteen minutes. My pop was on Guadalcanal (with the 1st Marine Division, not the Army) and he became quite emotional after seeing this movie. Not that the scenes brought back bad memories, no, quite the opposite. He was literally disgusted how this movie portrayed the war and that campaign in general. He said it was a major pile of revisionist historical crap. I was really disapointed by this one in case you can't tell. My favorite part was half way through the movie when the squad is moving down a jungle trail and the camera cuts to a long, long shot of an owl perched on a branch...My pal turned to me and said, "Look: Guadalcan-owl" Sad that that's about the most memorable part... Zamo Climbing off his critics stool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted June 13, 2000 Share Posted June 13, 2000 Urrrhhh! Book: Gooood! Movie: Baaad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikester Posted June 13, 2000 Share Posted June 13, 2000 Havn't had a chance to read the book yet. But have heard it is very good. The movie was terrible. Don't even bother renting it to watch at home, much less paying money to see it in a theatre. Like someone else mentioned above, one of the few movies that I've ever been tempted to walk out of before it was done. Mikester out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattias Posted June 13, 2000 Share Posted June 13, 2000 Odd how we all seem to react to and interpret things differently. How obviously disparate our emotional set-ups are. I Loved every minute of the movie, no more no less. This fine thread prompted me to put in the DVD and have a bit of a look right now. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted June 13, 2000 Share Posted June 13, 2000 Really, as they say, "to each his own." I certainly don't want to minimize the reactions of a real veteran (Zamo's father, above) to the TRL movie. But the film's less-than-Gung-Ho attitude towards combat seems pretty close to the attitude of books like Jones' original and Mailer's THE NAKED AND THE DEAD (both written not long after the war). Since both Jones and Mailer fought in the Pacific island campaigns, I'd say that their brand of cynicism has some historical validity. The Pacific Theater was a pretty bad time for everyone involved, and the TRL is trying to convey that through monologues and thoughts (which can be dull, I'll grant you) rather than through the usual war movie stylings. Naturally, it doesn't have to be your cup of tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted June 13, 2000 Share Posted June 13, 2000 Well said Martyr. Yes, I suppose to each his own is indeed the correct assessment. I read the Naked and the Dead at about the same time as Thin Red Line and The Barren Beaches of Hell. I am afraid I have elements of all of those books scrambled in my head. I guess I'll have to reread all of them. Speaking of good books, have any of you read Breakout! I just finished it last week and it was phenominally good. It concerns the breakout at the frozen Chosen during December '51. Very good reading. It's fact that reads alot like fiction...Four star recomendation. Zamo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hundminen Posted June 13, 2000 Share Posted June 13, 2000 Yeah, the book was good (aside from those homosexual encounters - not that there's anything wrong with that). One of the first books on WW2 I read that explored pre-battle fear and post-battle numbness so well. Actually, I haven't really read any fiction novels that cover the battle scenes so convincingly. However, the movie was a bit of a yawn, and does not come close to the novel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted June 13, 2000 Share Posted June 13, 2000 BREAKOUT looks good--I haven't read it yet, but I have a copy on my shelf waiting for some free time. I'm sure that CM4 (or 5 or 6), "The Korean Conflict," will be a big incentive for people to read this one! This board has been great for book and movie recommendations. I've learned a lot from several threads lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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