Guest HENTZAU Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Don't worry, With the advent of CM2, those in charge in our schools with probably require your children to play as the communist forces. They never did anything bad. LOL [This message has been edited by HENTZAU (edited 03-15-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 "Maybe I should start making up some flash cards with pictures of WW2 tanks on them to get her started." You laugh but my 3.5 year old can identify most WW2 aircraft on sight. And I'm not talking Mustang, Corsair but he can get down to Macci c.202, Fairy Swordfish, Pe2, bf110. AT least 35 to 40 aircraft. If I'm flying EAW or better yet if I'm a gunner in B17 he can id whether it's a 109 or a 190 as it flashes buy for a fraction of a second. Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 I've got a 13 year old girl and a son due in August. My experience is that kids are much, much smarter than you think they are. They naturally start thinking about sex and violence at an early age. Don't fall for the PC notion that exposure to violence is a problem for kids. The question is not violence, but moral content. The Book of Joshua is about as violent a tale as you'll find. To me, the really evil stories are those the push moral relativism, regardless of whether they have any violence in them. Given the condition of the schools, the only place your son is likely to learn much history is at home. So take advantage of any interest he shows in anything historical, and slip in a little history lesson whenever possible. The key with children is telling them the truth. You never help a child by lying to him. The child will eventually discover the truth, usually sooner rather than later. And when he does, he will be less inclined to believe you in the future. The guiding principle of child rearing is to always tell the truth to maintain your credibility. You'll need that credibility in the teenage years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Boy, what a shame we have to worry about what others think, but the sad truth is we do and especially in regards to 5 year olds or any youthfuls. With all that's happened in the news recently ( shooting in schools, etc) our society is not very tolerate or understanding about anything associated with guns in kids hands. So I would imagine the same would apply towards you teaching your 5 year old about war. Yes, I know you're not but try explaining that to his teachers or law enforcement people. I personally see nothing wrong in it myself as long as you teach him properly but I can sure see others making a lot out of it. I would be very careful, as you seem to be in mentioning it here, not to allow it to get outside the house. How you can do this seems to be the problem as others have said already, he's going to probably want to talk to his friends about the "cool" game him and his dad is playing and how about when his friends come over wanting to play and it getting back to his parents. Just my thoughts. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemx Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Not at all like FATHER like SON! My son has just turned 8 he playing CM,Risk,Axis&Allies and miniture table top games. He also fly a flight sim online against real men. The truely amazing thing is after about 20 games off CM I see him doing some really amazing deployements and attack plans. Maybe we should have a area where our kids can play IP games against eachother. The miniture wargaming club I belong to just recently set up a club meeting for the kids. It has been a great success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemx Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Just read this section about being careful above me. I know you mean well but I dare the school system to ever challenge my right to teach my son about history and wargames. I would sue all way to supreme court, it about time Americans start acting like Americans and not a bunch of wipped walking on glass half Americans. Another thing if I want to teach my son about german history the good with the bad I WILL. Americans have to remember that being german is not a sin or bad word. Have we forgot they are our ALLIES NOW! And I know nazis are whole differnet thing but germans are not nazis. Nazis where nazis. It is men like ourselfs and our sons to be that are the backbone of this country. I am sure in the recent school shottings those kids had no sense of history or honor. Since the age of 7 I have had a gun, learnt to hunt, learnt about history and respect. I am teaching these things to my children. I am tired of political correctness! I refuse to conform. keep the good traditions of this nation going and teach your children. It is ok for a kid to talk about a pokieman shoting lazer out of his eyes to destroy a purple blob. But your son can't go to school and talk about a spitfire vs 109s in the battle of britian. Hell bet half the teaches don't even know when the Battle of Britain was. Was another post about some nuts in a country wanting to register kids toy guns LOL!!!!!! Think it about time we make sure we VOTE!!! I also recommend joining the NRA and protect your right to carry firearms. I had once a man ask in a toy store how could you ever buy a war toy for your kid? Don't you think that is wrong? Glorifing war! I was taken back for a moment. I said very simply well I played with guns and war toys when i was a kid. They wheren't the only toys I had but I did have many war toys. I then asked the man did you ever serve in military? He said no - I said well I did! I then asked him have you ever been arrested? or do drugs? he looked and didn't answer - I said well I haven't been! I said what you make for a salary? He wouldn't answer and looking at him guessed he wa in low 16,000 a year. I told well i do 80+ and it my taxes that pay for the stuff your using. I then asked him what your educational level? I then responded he said High School - I responded Grad School! I then told so your going to sit there and have the nerve to ask me why I am buying this sherman tank for son? Do you even know what kind of tank this is? I bet you didn't. Then I walked up right to his face and said on top off it I really would love to kick your ass and you know why I won't? Because when I was kid I use to play with WAR TOYS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Originally posted by Leonidas: I've got a 13 year old girl and a son due in August. My experience is that kids are much, much smarter than you think they are. They naturally start thinking about sex and violence at an early age. I have to say that this is a uniquely American viewpoint, that children "naturally start thinking about sex and violence at an early age." The fact is, they do so because we teach them to. Then we wonder why our country is drowning in sex and violence. I was able to spend a few days in Ukraine visiting my wife's family a year ago. I work with delinquents for a living, so I know a bit about kids. Imagine my surprise when I discovered that Ukrainian kids are free of the "dragging lower lip syndrome" of our pouty, oversexed, hyperviolent little charmers in the good ol' US of A. Ukrainian kids grow up materially poor but rich in family life, love and sheltering. They do not revel in sex and violence, but look instead to work to please and serve their families. They are innocents compared to our little sophisticated, spoiled and self-centered tykes. Yeah, they'd get eaten alive if they came over here, but that's OK because they can always go out and buy a gun, right? OK, so maybe their country, economy and government suck, but the fact is that they are happy and well-adjusted. That was a meaningful discovery for me, after years of thinking that the species was going to hell in a handbasket. It turns out to be true only because that's what our media want us to believe is inevitable for us and we suckers believe it. I only mention this because I sometimes have to remind myself that we Americans don't have all the answers, nor is the best way necessarily our way. And finally, our problems are not universally shared by others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Well goz I must say your viewpoint was a bit of the fresh air of restrained reason after the preceding diatribes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 The new Alexanders have to come from somewhere. Even though it's fashionable to consider war unfashionable, somebody has to man the walls when the barbarians come calling. If the lad (or lass) has the apptitude, nothing wrong with being a professional soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 And why the hell do people insist on putting the words "sex" and "violence" together in a negative context? The first has nothing to do with the second --- unless yr into S&M or sumfink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Originally posted by gunnergoz: I have to say that this is a uniquely American viewpoint, that children "naturally start thinking about sex and violence at an early age." The fact is, they do so because we teach them to. Then we wonder why our country is drowning in sex and violence. You are, of course, entitled to your view, but it makes no sense to me, either theoretically or empirically. Do animals in the wild have to be taught about sex and violence, or do they do those things instinctually? The slightest bit of thought would indicate that of course animals must have instincts towards sex and violence, or they wouldn't survive and reproduce. If there has ever been a species in which the young had no instincts about those things, that species wouldn't survive for long. And then there's the empirical side. Have you ever watched boys and girls at play? I've been watching my girl for the past 13 years, and I guarantee that we didn't have to teach her to be interested in boys. As for Lucke's statement that violence and sex are unrelated, I think they're related in that they are powerful primal animalistic instincts that can be extremely destructive unless they are harnessed and controlled. But a discussion on sex would be off topic for this forum, so I'll stick to violence. It's important whether we view children as pure little angels corrupted by society, or as free moral agents with the power to choose evil, and possibly the inclination to do so. If you believe that children are inherently pure, then you will logically conclude that social engineering can end all violence and produce heaven on earth. These thoughts are dangerous. Remember that WWI was called 'The War to End All Wars.' People really believed in the twenties that if everyone just cared really hard, there would be no more wars. This delusion caused them to ignore Hitler's rise, capped off with that most classic of statements by the liberal Neville Chamberlain after appeasing Hitler in the late thirties: "Peace for our time." If WWII has taught us anything, it should be that the best way to invite war is to refuse to prepare for it. On the other hand, if you accept mankind's natural inclination toward violence you will realize that you must always be ready for war. And once you are ready for war you won't see much of it, because you can stop modern day warmongers (Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong Il) before they powerful enough to fight you. Millions of people have died to teach us that lesson. I hope we can remember it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluemx Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 You can be a loving family man and teach children about all the great things in life. This is what it really is all about, to live a honest life and have a good loving family. BUT you also have to be ready if need be to pick up a rifle and KILL if you have to. When Japan attacked the USA at Pearl Harbor did we have any other choice but to fight? HELL NO! If enemy tanks where rolling through your home town and you couldn't even send your kids to school - would you have to fight? YES! you would and wife and kids may have to fight to. WAR will always be with us and eventually we will even take war and struggle with us to the stars. The only thing men can do is try to be as just and fair as they can in life and government. All the Great Nations of the world have been fighting nations. As soon as a nation can't defend itself it leaves itself at the mercy of other nations. Anyone who wants war is wrong but you have to able to wage war if you want to survive. We are animals - all things in nature compete for resources even the grass in your front yard competes for sunlight and water. NEVER forget the true greatness of men is to resist the temptation to be the aggressor and live in peace. But once the Dogs of War have been released the greatness of men is to be strong and kick in and fight. Why is this so hard for so many people to understand. There are things worth fighting for. You can be a loving and respectful person and still own or gun. I can be a good man and still defend your home and country. This isn't brainwashing it is simple rules of survival. The pain of being defeated in battle and have your suff taken form you and have your nation occupied by the enemy would be far worse than a thousand deaths. PEACE man - but don't Tread on Me! Or I will give a war that will shake your very souls! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mirage2k Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Wow, no offence to you in particular bluemx, but these survivalist people kind of freak me out. But whatever. I question the value of a commercial game or toy as a training aid for war. -Andrew ------------------ "No, it's not that kind of relationship. We're just friends. We are together all the time, but I never touch her porcelain skin, her soft, red lips, like rose petals from the emperor's bathwater! Bathwater, I tell you, bathwateeeeeeer!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Peace Posted March 16, 2001 Author Share Posted March 16, 2001 I'm amazed that this thread is seeing a new life. By the way my son is not as interested in CM anymore as he is with MOO2. I guess he is graduating from the tactical to the strategic . However, he did get a model of a modern Leopard 2A5 tank for X-mas/hannukah. In combination with myself and he three year old sister we put it together and I must say did a pretty good job. (I did most of the glueing, but they did most of the painting). In terms of comments, I see a wide range. Personally, I do think children are exposed to significantly more violent images today then when I was a child. The difference is 30 years ago when you saw someone shot in the movies the guy puts his hand over his heart and falls to the ground. Today, you see his blood spouting all over. In my opinion this can not help but desensitize children to violence. That being said don't kid yourself into believing that the media is responsible for violent behavior. It is hot wired into little boys (and to a lesser extent little girls) from the start. Just ask my three year olds preschool teacher "Everything can be a pretend weapon". As parents it is up to us to make sure kids know the difference between pretend violence (which is probably healthy as it gives the urge an outlet), and real violence. One final comment. There appears to be clear division between gun owners and non-owners. As a parent I am extremely worried about guns in the hands of kids. Worrying about your kid getting shot in school should never happen. My personal view is that if you own a gun and someone steals it you should be held liable(if not criminally then financially) for the consequences. There are too many guns outthere in the hands of irresponsible people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Originally posted by Warren Peace: There appears to be clear division between gun owners and non-owners. I'm assuming I would be classed as a gun owner, for my anti-PC comments. Except that I don't own a gun, have never owned a gun, and have only once or twice even fired a gun. But I'm glad that other people own guns, and I wish more of them did. It keeps the crime rate down, and it's vital to maintaining a free society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvet Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 Originally posted by Warren Peace: My personal view is that if you own a gun and someone steals it you should be held liable(if not criminally then financially) for the consequences. I wasn't going to respond to the gun debate part of this thread, as I wanted it to stay on topic, but I just have to respond to this. I don't own a gun myself, but I can't justify what you said there in any way. Are you telling me that if someone breaks into your house, steals your gun, and commits a crime with it you should be held responsible??? Where is the logic in that? It is one thing if you supply a criminal with a weapon that you should know he will probably use to commit a crime, but this is totally different. I mean, would you hold a car owner responsible if someone steals his car and uses it to run someone over? ------------------ Craiger All your victory flag are belong to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted March 17, 2001 Share Posted March 17, 2001 Nope, we are absolutely NOT going to get on the topic of Gun Control here. Not on my shift! Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts