jshandorf Posted December 22, 2000 Share Posted December 22, 2000 Hey guys. I was wondering if anyone has seen this before. I know that when a member of a crew is killed that the ROF or RELOAD time goes down but I have NEVER seen it take this long. I had a bazooka team that was down to 1 crew. He was in command control and was OK!. A STuG rolled within 40 meters of the bazooka team and they stood up and targeted him. Their status said "RELOADING". I waited....and I waited. 60 seconds go by... By now I am screaming "SHOOOOOOOOOT!". The STuG is parked in front of the bazooka team. It does not see them. I give orders and the next turn arrives. I watch and wait again. I wait some more.... Still waiting... 45 seconds into the turn the bazooka team fires and scores a DIRECT HIT! Yeah! "Upper side hull hit. No serious damage." "F*CK! NOOOOOOO!!!! You suck!! I hope you die bazooka team!" etc etc etc... Has anyone seen a bazooka team take close to 2 minutes to reload? Thanks, Jeff ------------------ I once killed a six pack just to watch it die. [This message has been edited by jshandorf (edited 12-22-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted December 22, 2000 Share Posted December 22, 2000 No. ------------------ WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! - THIS SIG FILE BELONGS TO A COMPLETE FOO. MR T WOULDN'T BE SO KIND AS TO WRINKLE AN EYEBROW AT THIS UNFORTUNATE BEING. PLEASE OFFER HIS PARENTS AND COHABITANTS ALL SYMPATHY POSSIBLE. MAY BE CONTAGIOUS. CONTAINS ARTIFICIAL SWEETNER, INTELLIGENCE AND WIT. STAND WELL CLEAR AND LIGHT WICK. BY ORDER PETERNZ Damn Croda. That is one funny sig!!! must suck to be you - Hiram Sedai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt.Tom Posted December 22, 2000 Share Posted December 22, 2000 Was it a winter battle? Maybe he had frostbite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted December 22, 2000 Share Posted December 22, 2000 LOL jshandorf, it does give you something to tell the grandkids about someday. Maybe by then you will have learned to cope with the beautiful and wonderous ways of the 'zook. :H Ray ------------------ When asked, "How many moves do you see ahead?", CAPABLANCA replied: "One move - the best one." New CM Site. In process of switching. Brought to you by Hardcore Gamers Daily The Red Army of the Rugged Defense Group Ladder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted December 22, 2000 Share Posted December 22, 2000 The winter thing is a good point. It's a little known fact that early war zooks had difficulties in the winter. The tube would contract, thus causing the projectile to be too large for the tube. Zook teams had to file down the projectile by about 2 mm for it to fit in the tube. If you were down to 1 crew member, then he had to keep the tube out of the snow and file at the same time. This could easily take well over a minute. That's my best guess as to what happened. If it wasn't winter then perhaps the cold-weather-zook-tube-algorhithm needs to be tweeked a bit. ------------------ WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! - THIS SIG FILE BELONGS TO A COMPLETE FOO. MR T WOULDN'T BE SO KIND AS TO WRINKLE AN EYEBROW AT THIS UNFORTUNATE BEING. PLEASE OFFER HIS PARENTS AND COHABITANTS ALL SYMPATHY POSSIBLE. MAY BE CONTAGIOUS. CONTAINS ARTIFICIAL SWEETNER, INTELLIGENCE AND WIT. STAND WELL CLEAR AND LIGHT WICK. BY ORDER PETERNZ Damn Croda. That is one funny sig!!! must suck to be you - Hiram Sedai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted December 22, 2000 Author Share Posted December 22, 2000 Yeah, right. I'll tweak your "cold-weather-zook-tube-algorhithm" for you. Grrrr... Jeff ------------------ I once killed a six pack just to watch it die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Croda Posted December 22, 2000 Share Posted December 22, 2000 I also heard that there is an influx of Super Pershings in large scale QBs lately as well. Might want to look out for that. ------------------ WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! - THIS SIG FILE BELONGS TO A COMPLETE FOO. MR T WOULDN'T BE SO KIND AS TO WRINKLE AN EYEBROW AT THIS UNFORTUNATE BEING. PLEASE OFFER HIS PARENTS AND COHABITANTS ALL SYMPATHY POSSIBLE. MAY BE CONTAGIOUS. CONTAINS ARTIFICIAL SWEETNER, INTELLIGENCE AND WIT. STAND WELL CLEAR AND LIGHT WICK. BY ORDER PETERNZ Damn Croda. That is one funny sig!!! must suck to be you - Hiram Sedai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted December 22, 2000 Author Share Posted December 22, 2000 There also seems to be an influx of inane comments from bubbled headed morons in Battlefront threads lately. You might want to look out for that too. ------------------ I once killed a six pack just to watch it die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilsudski's Raider Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 What is the average length of time that it takes for one person to to reload in ideal conditions? What was his status? Rested, shocked, shaken? Was he expert, green, regular? Now, Let me indulge the story line like you were there and you were the last man standing . You are the sole remaining bazooka team member. You were just part of the team, not even the real "rocket man" [cuz he is dead at your feet]. Your thinking that you going to be killed in about 2 minutes[Do I stay? Do I run? Do I fight]. So now you get your wits about you and dig the rockets off your best friends body...then get the rocket and with shaking hands, you try to seat it properly in the tub. You take the long firing wire is which is taped to one of the fins...then you fumble with this wire and try to wrap it around the wrap it around one of two contacts near the rear of the bazooka to allow the electrical firing circuit to be completed when the trigger is squeezed. Panic is starting to set in and you begine to hyperventilate. Now your Lt is screaming at you to "fire, G**ammit, Fire!" You feel dizzy and you barely remember pulling the trigger. A hit - but the pint isn't even scratched...the whole thing seems unreal... Which it is but the purpose of the game is play like it is real. I was watching "Suicide Missions", Tank Crews last night about Sherman tankers. One of the stories told was about this LT that had 2 tanks shot out from under him. He jumps in a 3rd and while under fire, freezes up. Everyone is yelling at him to "back up, back up" and he doesn't move - bang - he's dead. You think he would have some prescense of mind after getting two tanks knocked out from under him. War does strange things... I personally don't think 2 minutes is all that long. If you are looking for every last man standing Bazooka man to consistently get off 2 shots in one minute then I think you take away from the reality of the game. I have played strict formula bound wargames before...boring. The uncertainty makes all the difference. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Whoever had the choice, would choose an eagle's nest on the cliffs in place of a home. May he know how to sleep, though his eyes be red from the thunder, and listen to the cries of the wild spirits in the murmur of the pines.-That is how I lived." [This message has been edited by Pilsudski's Raider (edited 12-22-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted December 23, 2000 Author Share Posted December 23, 2000 What in the WORLD are you talking about??? If I recalled correctly BTS doesn't simulated hyperventilation or sweaty palms. What I am asking about is the actual CODE in the game. Not some convoluted hypothetical story set int he world of digital people. And if you would actually READ my post I gave you all the information you asked about except that he was REGULAR. I already said that he was OK! and in command control. In fact he was hiding up to this point and while he was aiming err... I mean reloading for the minute and a hlaf it took him to fire NOT A SINGLE unit shot at him. So I ask again.. Is this normal? Anyone else see this before? And please no more "Lets try and compare real life to the game." Geeezz... Jeff ------------------ I once killed a six pack just to watch it die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raze Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 Hey jshandorf. I've seen it before (and other extended reloading times as well). I don't know what to tell you though. Maybe there is a code to simulate hesistation or sum such thing. Kinda like "Shocked" for AFV's. I share your pain ("You suck!! I hope you die bazooka team"). . . LOL ------------------ "The art of fighting without fighting..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted December 23, 2000 Author Share Posted December 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Raze: Hey jshandorf. I've seen it before (and other extended reloading times as well). I don't know what to tell you though. Maybe there is a code to simulate hesitation or sum such thing. Kinda like "Shocked" for AFV's. I share your pain ("You suck!! I hope you die bazooka team"). . . LOL <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I guess that's my problem. They weren't shocked, pinned, panicked.. nothin. They were hiding previously and they were in command control. They got up aimed and during the whole time NO ONE fired at them. It just seemed like they were taking their sweet time. Jeff ------------------ I once killed a six pack just to watch it die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilsudski's Raider Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 Ok - so the without knowing the code - you cannot know the answer. Other things to consider: Did any other units have the rocket man spotted? What was the weather? What time of day was it {light}? Did you re-target? That is - if you cancel target and target again - this can add some delay. Without knowing the code and all the caveats associated with it - there can be no specific answer to your question just general observations. Stuff happens. Certainly did not mean to get you upset - this forum does not attract much in the way of a straight answer crowd plus a lot of the postings here have nothing to do with the darn game at all.... As far as sweaty palms - that is a future enhancement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aaronb Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jshandorf: They weren't shocked, pinned, panicked.. nothin.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I've only seen it take this long when the team was under fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 If you said he was OK!, doesnt that mean that he was previously paniced? If so he was rallied, but could be shaken again much easier. Ray ------------------ When asked, "How many moves do you see ahead?", CAPABLANCA replied: "One move - the best one." New CM Site. In process of switching. Brought to you by Hardcore Gamers Daily The Red Army of the Rugged Defense Group Ladder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shandorf Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 Okay... Let me restate the situation again...*sigh* NO unit fired at them the WHOLE time. They were OK! the whole time. I never touch them i.e. retargeted etc.... It weird.. They just sat there reloading for a minute and a half. BTW I didn't get upset. I just hate it when people try to compare real life situations to a little digital bazooka guy in the game. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 While I have no specific answers for you, it seems a good place to raise the concern that while any anti-tank team is sitting without a target they are listed as "reloading". That don't seem right. ------------------ "From Halifax or Newfiejohn Or Derry's clustered towers, By trackless paths where conning towers roll, If you know another group in which You'd sooner spend your hours, You never sailed beneath the Barber Pole!" -- Escort Group C5 sailing song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 Had a shrek once wait 10+ turns while reloading. It was green, OK! and 1 man down... and 2 buttoned Shermans 80 meters away with no one looking.... bah~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 Jeff, The answer is... one man team = slower reload time. A two man team has one man loading while the other man is aiming. So you are expecting one man to do the job of two in the same time? That is not reasonable. On top of the reload time there is targeting and aiming time. All of these times, including reloading, have some degree of variability. It simply sounds like your guy didn't get things going as fast as another man could have. Contrary to what you suggest, we DO simulate "hyperventilation or sweaty palms" through RoF variability based on Experience level. For all we know the guy dropped the round twice before getting it into the tube. Those sorts of things happen, which is why all Bazooka Teams do not reload a round in 35.333334565 seconds each and every time. So, to sum up... CM's "digital people" aren't automotrons that do everything according to some sort of optimal timetable. Some do things faster, some slower and always slightly different from action to action. There are many factors for this, as there should be. Steve BTW, being in HQ Command radius does NOTHING to increase a unit's ability to aim, shoot, or reload. Such an effect would be unrealistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: BTW, being in HQ Command radius does NOTHING to increase a unit's ability to aim, shoot, or reload. Such an effect would be unrealistic.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> "Sanderson! If you don't get your ass outa the grass and put some rounds out RIGHT NOW, I am gonna kick your ass, rip your arm off, and beat you with the soggy end! MOVE IT, mister!" ------------------ "From Halifax or Newfiejohn Or Derry's clustered towers, By trackless paths where conning towers roll, If you know another group in which You'd sooner spend your hours, You never sailed beneath the Barber Pole!" -- Escort Group C5 sailing song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilsudski's Raider Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 Shandorf - not knowing you, I would not know what you do and do not get "upset" with so I will know better next time when responding to your questions. 'nuf said on that... I asked if any other units "spotted" only because I would expect one of the factors that could / should be in the code is if several enemy groups are targeting or "looking" at a unit. Even though the 'zook team was not shot at[at some point they were as there is only one man left] maybe to the fact that your bazooka shooter was a secondary target. If a unit is being observed, it should make the firing unit slower [more careful]. This comes from the idea that someone "spotted" would be less efficient in their abilities, including reload time. There are probably a dozen factors in the code that can affect the length of time issue. I think that is why it is difficult to answer questions about "why the shot missed?" or "why the Stuart took out the Panther?". It would be interesting to view you particular situation...did you save both turns? I had a bazooka [side, lower hull hit] take out a StuH 42, 82m, 95% armor rating, moving, no smoke, in about 15 seconds. The 'zook unit was Regular, Rested, in a building, not spotted by any other enemy units and the bazooka team had not previously fired. It just so happened that the 'zooks C.O. was in the same building. I am now using version 1.1b24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted December 23, 2000 Share Posted December 23, 2000 jshandorf wrote: > What in the WORLD are you talking about??? If I recalled correctly BTS doesn't simulated hyperventilation or sweaty palms. > What I am asking about is the actual CODE in the game. Not some convoluted hypothetical story set int he world of digital people. > [...] > And please no more "Lets try and compare real life to the game." Steve wrote: > Contrary to what you suggest, we DO simulate "hyperventilation or sweaty palms" through RoF variability based on Experience level. For all we know the guy dropped the round twice before getting it into the tube. I was waiting for that. =) Jeff, this is why comparing CM to real life is valid. Because CM simulates real life. If you can think up a good reason for something to happen in a given situation as Raider has, and it's likely to be a common occurrence, then it's quite possibly modelled in the game. It's not going to be totally replicated – it's not like you can zoom in and see the tension on the guy's face or see him dropping the rocket, but a value can be attributed to the action. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naja Posted December 24, 2000 Share Posted December 24, 2000 First thing id like to say is that I enjoyed Pilsudski's post. I thought it was well writ and thought out. My only comment is was it they or he? If as correctly pointed out by Pilsudski the zook's buddy is dead next to him this makes His job that much harder. I have come to expect from the game the unexpected just like life. jshandorf wrote: I had a bazooka team that was down to 1 crew......I already said that he was OK!.....I mean reloading for the minute and a hlaf it took him to fire NOT A SINGLE unit shot at him......They weren't shocked, pinned, panicked.. nothin. They were hiding previously and they were in command control. They got up aimed and during the whole time NO ONE fired at them. It just seemed like they were taking their sweet time. [This message has been edited by Naja (edited 12-23-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilsudski's Raider Posted December 24, 2000 Share Posted December 24, 2000 Naja - thanks for your comment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 24, 2000 Share Posted December 24, 2000 Babra wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"Sanderson! If you don't get your ass outa the grass and put some rounds out RIGHT NOW, I am gonna kick your ass, rip your arm off, and beat you with the soggy end! MOVE IT, mister!"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is what we call Rallying. In other words, whithout someone yelling at the guy he wouldn't fire at all. But I doubt a red faced, angry Sgt. would get a single guy firing a Bazooka to shave 20 seconds off his firing time. The main penalty is the fact that it is just ONE man trying to do the job normally assigned for two. Yell at him all you want, but it won't likely do much. In fact, it might do the opposite, by making him screw up under the additional pressure So HQs have the effect of getting a unit to perform when it would otherwise be hiding or panicking. It doesn't improve RoF, nor should it. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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