rwcanuck Posted January 8, 2000 Share Posted January 8, 2000 I have a bazooka man left in a foxhole with no more ammo left...he is about to be assaulted in a PBEM game I am playing. I know there are dead & wounded infantrymen around him. Will he picking up a rifle to defend himself, make a run for it or just surrender, which is more likely to happen? I did a search for scavenging & came up empty. It would add a new dimension in this great game if scavenging is implemented in CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hoerter Posted January 8, 2000 Share Posted January 8, 2000 Scavenging is not in. This one has been talked about before, but it can often be difficult to pick up some threads... In any case, I believe the argument was that this was out of the time-scale for CM. Perhaps more importantly, it was stated that it was hard to implement. There are some cases where infantry will pick up another clip off of a fallen soldier, but I think this is abstracted sufficiently with the LOW AMMO status slowing rather than halting a units fire. For bazookas etc... how would the men know another team fell in that location? Their ammunition type is much more uncommon than a rifles (not to mention the added overhead of tracking dropped ammuntion by location). Certainly there are exceptions, but I believe the decision was that this would not be in. If someone knows differently, feel free to correct me. Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stabsfeldwebel Posted January 9, 2000 Share Posted January 9, 2000 I'll agree, the coding for it would be very hard to do, especially in this game. But for the sake of reality, it happened all the time. Just for example sake. The book "The forgotten soldier" there is like 3 or 4 examples of the author loosing his weapon and picking up another, sometimes even enemy ones. And as for the zook who's outta ammo. If I personally was a zooker and was outta ammo, and I knew I was about to be assaulted by infantry, that zook would become litter faster than i can say asta la vista. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hoerter Posted January 9, 2000 Share Posted January 9, 2000 Recall that most of these are 15 minute or so firefights. Two teams close to each other may know of each others locations. But to say that two teams that are a couple hundred meters apart and know of each others ammo status did not happen historically. There are exceptions, but not often. Many of the accounts I've read involve units that have some chance to reorganize. With bazookas, there are plenty of examples of a team hunting multiple vehicles in a town expending several rounds of ammunition, but this is over the course of a day or so. Not within the timescale of a typical firefight. Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted January 9, 2000 Share Posted January 9, 2000 I fully understand why there is no scavenging (or dead bodies) in CM. However, having done it myself, I at times find it frustrating that my troops can't do this. So, to keep from blowing a gasket when it would really help my guys to be able to do this, I think up explanations that are more in keeping with the gameworld than the realworld, code-related reasons. Here are some of them: 1. CM soldiers are really armed with retro-styled Star Trek phasers which disintegrate both the victim and his equipment. This is why there are no dead bodies lying around, and no scavenging either . 2. CM's wonderful FOW and spotting system takes over. As is well known, CM troops can't see anyting unless it moves or shoots. Dead men and the equipment they drop do neither, so become permanently invisible to all surviving troops, who thus can't find the discarded weapons . 3. The religion of the CM soldiers is to blame. They believe in Valkyries physically transporting the deceased to Valhalla at the instant of death, there to practice for and eventually fight in (and, sadly, lose) Ragnorok. Because this afterlife requires weapons, the Valkyries pick them up, too, when they snatch the body. 4. Another CM religious explanation: Saint Tom Hanks manifests beside each fallen CM trooper at the instant of death. He removes and discards the bolt from his weapon, thus rendering that useless, then slings the body over his shoulder and carries back to its virtual family. -Bullethead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 9, 2000 Share Posted January 9, 2000 Or, to borrow something from the Aliens in "Space: Above and Beyond"... The enemy have a religious aversion to being in the same place as the dead or using their equipment. Plus humans are described as "Red blood, stinky creatures" in their language which probably has something to do with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted January 9, 2000 Share Posted January 9, 2000 Space: Above and Beyond was a pretty neat series and I miss it (apparently there were only two of us). Of course, a weekly hero who is sometimes grunt, sometimes fighter pilot is a bit much, but I liked the campaign aspect of it and the tactical detail. Then, I liked Starship Troopers, too. Most of it, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcarey Posted January 9, 2000 Share Posted January 9, 2000 Mark IV, Is that Starship Troopers the book or movie? They are completely different in every regard (that I can think of). I prefered the book to the movie personally - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 9, 2000 Share Posted January 9, 2000 What, Starship Troopers the Book, Movie, or Cartoon? Yes, they have stooped to make another cartoon out of a movie. What's next? A Cartoon of SPR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted January 9, 2000 Share Posted January 9, 2000 Actually the Cartoon I feel is much better than the movie and at least has power armor in it! If you haven't seen it (and its on at some ungodly hours around these parts) give it a try, you might be surprised, I was... Of course the book is still king in my kingdom! Madmatt out... p.s. the show goes by the name "Roughnecks: Starship Troopers Chronicles" here is a good website dedicated to the series and its really not a cartoon but 100% CGI (computer graphics!) www.trooperpx.com/RSTC/series.html p.s.s. I also liked Space:Above and Beyond, I guess that makes 3 of us now! ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 01-08-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 9, 2000 Share Posted January 9, 2000 Only saw a commercial for ST, but, it was on something called the Cartoon Channel. It only shows garbage toons, so, I just assumed it was, well garbage (I know, I know, if you assume anything you make an ASS out of U and ME) I was really pissed of at how they ended Space: Above and Beyond. I mean, they get whats-her-head back from the 'Chigs' (Pardon the use of a racist term), one of them gets blown up, and two more are slated as MIA. Then the show just ends. Kind of like how Tour of Duty ended, with no conclusion whatsoever. That show just started to get realistic, actually showing bullit ricoches by the last season! PS. does ST the toon have the same nudity as in ST the movie? it might explain its weird hours, and the fact that Madmatt loves it so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Bomber Posted January 9, 2000 Share Posted January 9, 2000 I was playing as Americans… I had one of my 60mm Morters destroyed, but the crew was fine and it showed that they still had 16 rounds left. I moved them to a 60mm Morter & Team that was out of ammo. There was no way to give them the ammo. Any chance this will be fixed in the full version? ------------------ Always Check Your Six! [This message has been edited by Heavy Bomber (edited 01-09-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted January 9, 2000 Share Posted January 9, 2000 The ammo that the crew had was for its PISTOLS . Pistol and 60mm mortar ammo aren't interchangeable in any army I know of . Although, could you imagine if your pistol was a 60mm instead of like 9mm ? OUCH! ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Bomber Posted January 9, 2000 Share Posted January 9, 2000 That makes perfect sense. just like tank crews, 88 crews…etc. Thanks for the info ------------------ Always Check Your Six! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted January 9, 2000 Share Posted January 9, 2000 Yeah, I completely missed the "end" of Tour of Duty, and have always wondered how they finished it. From what you said, I didn't miss much. Stupid CBS. That's right around the time they decided to become the official network of old people. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwcanuck Posted January 9, 2000 Author Share Posted January 9, 2000 I recently played a head-to-head game of Close Combat 4. A lone infantryman named Evans used all the ammo from his rifle and then proceeded to pick up a Thompson from his fallen sargeant and contine to hold off a German attack on his position. Evans ended up with 8 kills. I know CC has its problems but the soldier individualism including scavenging of CC is something I hope CM can seriously look at for the future. Regardless though, Combat Mission is a great game and I look forward to my copy in the mail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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