russellmz Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 how do i take and hold a victory location as the americans? i usually ask for meeting, combined arms. most of the time it's my fault that i lose but sometimes i can't help it as my squads wind up with LOW or single digit number of ammo left as hordes of enemy rush in. plus on some games i THINK i face 9 german squads vs. my 6 american ones.(not quite sure if that's true but it seems like it) usually i buy my 2 platoons(always veteran now since i learned u can only get 6 squads max, may as well get the best possible) one sherman, usually vet, and spend my other points between zooks, arty, and mmg's(usually can afford only 2 of the 3) i keep my sherm in reserve or far away to engage any enemy armor if it attacks my troops or use a hill to protect it's flank and give it a lane to send fire down. usually it gets toasted or negated by the presence of an enemy tank before end of game.(only once did i get it to destroy an enemy tank, and that was with a lucky lower hull penetration on a far off hetzer that had me bracketed) i usually tell my guys to grab and hold a vic loc because if i let the other guy hold it he has time to defend it, move mmg up, etc. should i just say screw it and choose as many mmg's and mmg equipped scout cars as possible instead of wasting it on a tank? should my tank be more aggressive? ALMOST any comments could be really helpful for me, thanks. ------------------ "They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush "They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 Jus remeber, he who has the last reserve wins. It looks like you need to use one platoon for holding the VL. Also, remeber that the Americans have very cheap and plentiful heavy weapins, let your mortars and MMGs do your talking until range closes. I actually have more success with the Americans in small MEs. Another option is to bump your points up to 700, so you can buy a company. Muchos fire support and the company HQ lets you pull a squad or two out of the line and hold them in reserve without hiding half of your strength. WWB ------------------ Before battle, my digital soldiers turn to me and say, Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salutamus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hough Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 I think you may be using your tank wrong... Reamember, the Sherman 75 is not primarily an anti-tank weapon, and if you're buying the tank for that purpose, you'd be better off with an M10. And if you do need to use the Sherman against tanks, you should try to be as close as possible/safe, using your mobility and turret speed to your advantage, as well as giving the weak gun a better chance of penetrating. I generally don't think it's worth it to buy all your troops veteran. Yeah, they are quite a bit better, and you can't use those points for more squads, but you could spend the points on support or artillery. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by russellmz: how do i take and hold a victory location as the americans? i usually ask for meeting, combined arms. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> two main things to remember(OK, three...) 1)In meeting engagements, since both players are at the ends of the map, so the winning strategy involves rushing the objectives since you know that the enemy is not there (OK, this is gamey, but if he does it and you don't, you will always lose); however it is usually best not to take the objective immediately ( your opponent will have it targeted or you can be shot at as you approach) but rather to take a covering position nearby from where you can blast the enemy when he does. 2) German infantry is better than US at long range,and the opposite is true at close range;if you are the US, avoid fighting attrition battles with the Germans from long range(more than 200m). Try to get in close. 3)Use artillery to target potential areas where the enemy is likely to hole up,and pre-target the area(you can always move it if he's not there). This way, assoon as heappears, he can beblasted by your artillery within a minute of the time he is spotted. The above willimprove your chances immensely. If you play against me,disregard the above,they are all lies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted December 12, 2000 Author Share Posted December 12, 2000 whoa, i thought us was better at long range(didn't germans have a bunch of units with single shot bolt action rifles, compared to the m1 semiauto?)...this explains a lot... is artillery really that effective in such a small game? i remember once i left my vet troops in some heavy forest, fairly close together. the germans tossed some arty onto my troops. i left them there since: a) i knew there wouldn't be much of it in a 500pt game my hq unit was bad-ssed in the morale dept c) if i ran they would have to either expose themselves on a road heading toward the enemy, get out in the open on the flanks, or retreat through the arty. in the end i suffered 4 casualties, which i thought was light ------------------ russellmz Self-proclaimed keeper for life of the sacred unofficial FAQ "They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush "They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show [This message has been edited by russellmz (edited 12-11-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvet Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 I'd say that the statement that U.S. infantry is better at short range than German is a bit misleading. It is certainly true in some cases, but not all of them. There is a wide range of units that fall under the generic term "infantry." A German submachinegun squad for example is worthless at long range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 Artillery, o/b or on-board, are very effective on small map, small points. Right landing at the right point can shatter a good portion of enemy in no time. Sweet! But bear in mind that shells, especially rockets, "have no eyes" (that is what Chinese comment on weapons in general), make sure you know where you are pointing at or you men suffer. Griffin. ------------------ "When you find your PBEM opportents too hard to beat, there is always the AI." "Can't get enough Tank?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParaBellum Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 I cannot stress too much how important artillery is. I won lots of small battles with just one "perfect" mortar barrage. In real world, over 80 (!) percent of battlefield casualties in ww2 were caused by artillery, so think about it. When playing as the germans I love to buy two 81mm spotters, totallly 300 rounds... That´s a hell of a punch. In some recent games I had just one infantry platoon with a few HMGs, a stug and some AT/Inf Guns, and everytime defeatet 1-2 companies. Normal casualty rate was something like 150 allied against 30 germans. In small battles also try not to buy a tank, but rather buy cheap AT/Inf guns. Well placed with clear fields of fire they are a cheap substitute for a tank. And you got some points left for arty support... ------------------ Klotzen, nicht kleckern! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrew Hedges Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 ParaBellum is absolutely right; artillery is more important than tanks at this level. With 500 points, I might consider buying two regular platoons, two bazookas, a .50 cal, and 2 81mm FOs. The trick with a force like this in a ME is *not* to rush up to the VLs. It is to wait until you spot the enemy, and then hit him with artillery (a lot) and kill him. Then your men waltz in and mop up the survivors. By having two FOs, you have a lot of flexibility: I tend to keep them around my platoons (rather than sticking them off in some building somewhere), so they're always there when I need them. You could also buy, say, two platoons, one FO, one bazookaman, and an M10, although I don't like having just *one* of anything. Also, you could quickly lose your m10, and then you're tankless against a tank, only have one zook, and only one FO. It's important to have a .50 cal, even if they are slow, since armored cars can be as much of a pain to your infantry as tanks. Mortar smoke can be useful, too, especially if there is a tank you can't reach but want to block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj. Bosco Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 81mm FO for the Amis. Worth their weight in gold. 200 rounds of ammo. Solid gold. About infantry, American inf is better at long ranges. Unless your opponent bought regular Heer rifle squads then at close range you will get your ass handed to you by a bunch of MP40's and MP44's. Get a couple of .50 cal mounted vehicles. Remember to always keep them moving and always keep them far enough away from enemy infantry that a PF is unlikely to knock it out. White Scout Cars are invaluable if used correctly. If you buy a Sherman then recognize that it's main purpose is against infantry. There's a reason they come with three machineguns. If you want to kill a german tank with a sherman you need to get up real close and take advantage of the speed and turret advantage of the Sherman. There are two speeds on Sherman tanks when dealing with enemy armor: Fast and Hide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maj. Bosco: About infantry, American inf is better at long ranges. Unless your opponent bought regular Heer rifle squads then at close range you will get your ass handed to you by a bunch of MP40's and MP44's. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Fromthegamesofwarwebsite tactical guide: "the US rifle squad - lacking the fire support of a machinegun like the German MG42 - is a good fighting outfit for close to medium ranges, but lacks punch at distances above 200 meters. When establishing a base of fire to suppress the enemy, try to close in within 200 meters of the enemy position before doing so." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Henri: Originally posted by Maj. Bosco: Fromthegamesofwarwebsite tactical guide: "the US rifle squad - lacking the fire support of a machinegun like the German MG42 - is a good fighting outfit for close to medium ranges, but lacks punch at distances above 200 meters. When establishing a base of fire to suppress the enemy, try to close in within 200 meters of the enemy position before doing so." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, the ideal distance is from 100-200m. That way, those MP40s don't kick in yet, and your rifles and BAR are almost as effective as they would be at close range. ------------------ Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. -Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysian Posted December 13, 2000 Share Posted December 13, 2000 I read your post at work, got home and setup a QB along the lines of what you describe (500 pts, ME, played allies with a Sherman 75mm as main unit). I won it in 13 turns even with some dumb mistakes. My advice to you (besides the good advice above) would be to re-evaluate how you move units. Even when operating offensively, trying to gain territory or a VL, I find it helps to think defensively. Think "moving ambush". Infantry should be your eyes, move the heavy stuff (or unhide it as the case may be for AT guns) into position only when you can guess what they will run into and that most likely they will kill/disable the target. Also, try to limit the LOS of your attacking units to only the target you plan to take out in order to protect them from side shots. I apologize if this advice is a little basic (I'm no expert myself), but defensive/ambush type thinking seems to help a lot in CM. Probably in real-life war as well! Elysian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted December 13, 2000 Author Share Posted December 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elysian: I read your post at work, got home and setup a QB along the lines of what you describe (500 pts, ME, played allies with a Sherman 75mm as main unit). I won it in 13 turns even with some dumb mistakes. My advice to you (besides the good advice above) would be to re-evaluate how you move units ... Elysian<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> did you play the ai or against a human? "fighting automatics is one thing kid, fighting against the living, that's another" (any excuse to throw in a star wars line) ------------------ russellmz, Self-Proclaimed Keeper for Life of the Sacred Unofficial FAQ. "They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush "They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crank_GS Posted December 13, 2000 Share Posted December 13, 2000 Am I missing something here? I tried to set up a 500 point, Meeting Engagement, American force vs Heer, Combined Arms. I cannot buy 2 US rifle platoons! They are anywhere from 120 (regular only) to 150-something (1945, squad). I tried variations on the year, Axis or Allied attacker (despite the ME designation...) and nothing worked. The Combined Arms, ME, American 500 point set up allows only 225 points worth of Infantry. I ask again, am I missing something? I am using 1.05 Good advice above; I wanted to try it out. ------------------ Capt. Byron Crank, US Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted December 13, 2000 Share Posted December 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elysian: I Even when operating offensively, trying to gain territory or a VL, I find it helps to think defensively. Think "moving ambush". Elysian<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's good advice,and corresponds to Liddell Hart's"offensive defensive method" in his "Strategy of the Indirect Approach". Meeting engagements are good for this kind of tactic: quickly take a good positionand force the opponent to try to remove you, thus profiting from the advantage of the defense over the offense. The rushing tactic to accomplish this in a meeting engagement requires some judgment about potential locations of the enemy, and can backfire if he correctly guesses your location and pre-targets it with artillery. It is important to know that in CM, it is not necessary to occupy an objective to control it, having more good units in the vicinity usually is sufficient, even if the enemy actually occupies the flag! Henri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted December 13, 2000 Author Share Posted December 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crank_GS: I ask again, am I missing something? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> i can afford two platoons at the medium troop quality setting...are you at that setting? ------------------ russellmz, Self-Proclaimed Keeper for Life of the Sacred Unofficial FAQ. "They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush "They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show [This message has been edited by russellmz (edited 12-13-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crank_GS Posted December 13, 2000 Share Posted December 13, 2000 Yes! Medium troop quality, Meeting engagement. 500 points. Combined arms. Maximum allowable points for Infantry is 225. If I leave it at attack, I get to pick 800 points, but that is not part of the parameters. ------------------ Capt. Byron Crank, US Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted December 13, 2000 Share Posted December 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by russellmz: "fighting automatics is one thing kid, fighting against the living, that's another" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> isn't it: "Good against remotes is one thing... Good against the living? Now that's something else." And of course the ultimate CM truism: "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted December 13, 2000 Author Share Posted December 13, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Compassion: isn't it: "Good against remotes is one thing... Good against the living? Now that's something else." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> yes...wait...is it good or going? if it is then i have been mishearing it all these years... cm truism... "INTENSIFY FORWARD FIREPOWER" "TOO LATE!" boom ------------------ russellmz, Self-Proclaimed Keeper for Life of the Sacred Unofficial FAQ. "They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush "They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crank_GS Posted December 13, 2000 Share Posted December 13, 2000 I am sorry, but this has me truly flummoxed... Are you guys playing this 500 point, ME, Combined Arms with CM 1.1b??? That's the only thing I can figure, because no matter how I try to set it up, I am only allowed 225 points worth of infantry - and that won't buy but ONE rifle platoon, regular or veteran! And I use 1.05..... ------------------ Capt. Byron Crank, US Army Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysian Posted December 14, 2000 Share Posted December 14, 2000 Russelmz, To answer your question, against the AI. I played the battle in v1.05 with default date settings, combined arms(both sides), ME. [This message has been edited by Elysian (edited 12-13-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hough Posted December 14, 2000 Share Posted December 14, 2000 I just checked the two versions. 1.1 increases the number pof oints available for infantry, from 225 to something enough to get two vet platoons. A much needed change. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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