KiwiJoe Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 I'm coming to the conclusion that buildings in CM are nothing more than very large coffins. The problem as far as I can see is in the damage model. A house suddenly goes from "perfectly fine" to rubble in 1 very large explosion that usually does massive damge to any squads/teams insdie. There is no way to tell how close a building is to collapse other than count the shells/mortors/etc that hit it, take into account whether it is light or heavy and "guess" if its safe to stay in another round. This becomes very trickly on village and town maps with 30 or more buildings. There needs to be AT LEAST 1 more stage in between that shows the building as somewhat damaged ie. a texture with half a wall fallen down, holes in the roof. When you combine this with the relativly small PBEM maps, large attacker points (too large IMO)and devastating effect of most artillery, it becomes very difficult to win a defense mission in anything but open terrain. Suggestions: 1/ Decrease attacker points. 2/ Include another stage in building damage model. 3/ Make me win all games without even having to really try. Thanking you in advance. KiwiJoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pucker Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 I am not sure if this has been discussed before (probably has), but I would agree with you on visual signs of damage. I would also prefer a better graphic to represent a collapsed house (anyone out there willing to do one). Hopefully we will see these in CM2 Pucker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rollstoy Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 Maybe a 'percent of damage' counter? But I think I remember this is a 'feature', too, as you cannot know whether a building will collapse soon or not. Rational: not every soldier was a civil engineer. Let's see what it will be like in CM 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 Just so you know guys I think you will find this one has been address in the next patch pretty much how Thomm suggested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 I want one of those damage bars seen in popular RTS like C&C, Red Alert, AoE etc Engineer troops would be great for restoring damage too, a new interface button named "repair" could be handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rollstoy Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 Oh, wow! I cannot fight the feeling that the game is slowly evolving into CM 2, at least engine-wise. I am really curious when there will be the first serious cut between the two versions! Maybe we will end up with incremental visual damage on the single room level in CMBO, too?! CMBO 1.10, maybe? Regards, Thomm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiJoe Posted August 24, 2000 Author Share Posted August 24, 2000 I diffinatly wouldnt want any sort of damage meter/counter. Just a little visual feedback as to what state the building I'm entering is in. I'm sure any soilder with eyes in his head could tell if a building has been majorly shelled and is in a dangerous condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 Kwazy, Could you and Charles at least let us whine a little and let off steam before you go and fix things up! Sheesh. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 The line will have to be drawn somewhere sooner or later I guess Thomm.. As you can imagine CM 2 will have major enhancements and additions which all require bug testing etc, something that will be beyond a patch for CM1 Id say. I know Steve and Charles mentioned a long while back they were hoping CM2's engine will be able to incorporate CM1's units though, fingures crossed I think it is excellent the speed at which Charles has addressed peoples issues and added in new ideas and enhancelents The list of tweaks and fixes is amazing, and personally I was happy with CM before they were even started. All the feedback though has really built up a great foundation for CM2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 Hehe, just so you know Charles is the one doing all of the fixing hunter, Ive just been lurking around disarming threads before they go geting too involved unnecessarily Steve mentioned 1.05 in another thread, so I figured it couldnt hurt mentioning this one here before it got all carried away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiJoe Posted August 24, 2000 Author Share Posted August 24, 2000 Well I've never known a game company to actually respond to most forum posts and take on board decent suggestions like BTS. Most usually just chime in every month or so and try to make excuses for why their games crash... "make sure you have the latest drivers installed". Thats why I don't normally bother posting ideas for improvements, but here I actually feel if I manage to make a good suggestion it could be incorporated into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by howardb: I want one of those damage bars seen in popular RTS like C&C, Red Alert, AoE etc Engineer troops would be great for restoring damage too, a new interface button named "repair" could be handy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Of course your kidding, right Howardb??? How could engineers possibly repair anything given the scale of this tactical game...?? How much do you think "anyone" could repair "anything" in 30-60 minutes???? ------------------ Land Soft--Kill Quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 This my sound a little off base but.. If Charles is working on the v1.05 patch, Will he have time to work on the network TCP/IP multi player link as well? This game has been fixed and patched with relentless attention to detail and accuracy and I fully support Charles' tireless efforts. I have been playing v1.04 lately and I think it is GREAT! I have found that with experience you can sort of "guess" or get a feel for how long buildings will last. I have found myself on a few occasions evacuating buildings only seconds before the final hit takes the building down. I woud say if it is a heavy building or a two sort building it should last at least a turn or two but by the third turn of heavy fire into a building you "should" really give your guys that "heads up" to get the HELL out after the first or second minute of heavy fire and you should be ok? If this feature is in v1.05 I would like to suggest that it not really be ALL that accurate. As mentioned here grunts weren't civil engineers and I think the damage level progress bar for these buidlings that are in the process of being destroyed should include some margin of error that will give both false negatives and false positives implying the damage meter, (depending on the skill level of the occupants) might indicate the building was just about to come down, (with only a few hits by with a green unit it in) or also with a green unit in it (if they are stupid and brave) it may show that even thought the building is taking MANY hits the green units thinks it won't come down. An Elite unit may have a Much better idea as to the state of destruction. The observer unit in the building that actually makes the observation that you see on the damage meter should be either the highest ranking unit or the unit with the most experience. (Ok I know that's a bit of a CPU hit and programming challenge) If there is to be a damage meter I would like to see it model some form of fog of war so that you should still be able to "feel" the level of destruction that way you can now, and then trust that "feeling" even thought the damage meter indicates (falsely) that the building is still safe and sound and has not taken that much damage. just my thoughts on the upcoming idea of the "building damage meter" -tom w ------------------ <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> "Remember that no dumb bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." G. S. Patton <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 Hi Tom.... "Will he have time to work on the network TCP/IP multi player link as well?" Dont worry Tom, it is just a small update to correct a couple of small issues and add in one or two small features. "If this feature is in v1.05 I would like to suggest that it not really be ALL that accurate. " Dont worry, it isnt Its just a general indicator, something I would imagine a person of average intellegence could guess at without any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 KwazyDog, you tease! Has anyone else noticed how he says this is in the next pact, but doesn't say much about HOW it's done?? Oh, the anticipation! ------------------ "Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 Kidding Airborne ??? Now what tipped you off, was it the repair function heh heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 Hehe, one thing Ive learnt in the past intel is that is you give specifics and those specifics dont turn out to the the final product usually someone ends up upset. Basically its just a general indicator on the end of the building name as to its damage level. Simple but effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by howardb: Kidding Airborne ??? Now what tipped you off, was it the repair function heh heh<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, that was it. Plus I didn't see a smilie on that part of the post. You scared me.. ------------------ Land Soft--Kill Quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rollstoy Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 ... and it would be cool if they put the factories, which produce the reinforcements, onboard!!!!! Smiley added for clarity: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Airborne: Of course your kidding, right Howardb??? How could engineers possibly repair anything given the scale of this tactical game...?? How much do you think "anyone" could repair "anything" in 30-60 minutes???? Hey, You can work wonders with a couple of rolls of Duct tape. As a Field Engineer you should know this already. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ------------------ Wow, I've had the **** hit the fan before, but never like this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 Changing the buildings graphics isn't going make much of an impact on this issue if the Tac-AI doesn't know when to get the unit out of the building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJ Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 hey robo. the way i see it, the issue isn't really about the TacAI knowing when to leave, it's more of the player having a very general idea of how damanged a building is. That way the player (NOT the AI) can make a more informed decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 "Hey, You can work wonders with a couple of rolls of Duct tape. As a Field Engineer you should know this already." Maybe Kingfish, but I like to think that I would be unassing the AO if the building started to collapse around me. Hopefully before the impending TAC NUC effect.... ------------------ Land Soft--Kill Quiet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtweasle Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 Anyone and anything are rather all encompasing terms. "edited for smiley dude error..." [This message has been edited by Dirtweasle (edited 08-24-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robo Posted August 24, 2000 Share Posted August 24, 2000 MikeJ, but it usually only takes 1 minute or less for a building to go down (at least a light one). I suppose it might help in some case but it also seems "gamey" to me in that the engine is using visual clues targeted for the almighty player who knows all but whose men don't know what's about to hit them. It seems to me that if in the CM world a building can turn into a coffin then a squad should know this and the Tac-AI should compensate for this by moving the squad in imminent danger out of the building (or at least reduce the damage done). A building ready to collapse should be treated just like any other threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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