aka_tom_w Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 One of my favourite Allied tanks is the M18 Hellcat, Fast light Quick and packs a good punch if it gets its tungsten off.... Well I have been playing and testing a scenario with M10's and M18's against King Tigers and Panthers and Hetzers. And YES the code works VERY well, the Allied tanks that have even very limited available rounds of tungsten, will not hestitate to fire them at Kt's and Panthers. I had a M10 get clobbered in a bad flank exposed postion by a KT which was hull down at 200m (my 3 o'clock) that was able to get a hit on the first shot but it was only a track hit (Great !) Flank exposed, Kt, hull down at 200 m,is lining up the K-KILL shot, all the while the M10 (exposed, not hull down, sitting duck in the open) is frantically swinging its turret around about 90 degrees to its right flank to try to get a shot off, before the KT can pump off the next round, so the M10 (what a nice little Tank ) FIRES its first shot, SCORES a First Shot HIT at 200 meters (Cool) BUT Wait! It Fires Tungsten and Nails the KT in the Front Turret and Pentrates and K-Kills the Damn thing in one shot! (And YES, I guess that was a VERY lucky shot to be honest) The only part that disapointed me was the KT did not erupt in a catastrophic explosion, some how the JOY of a first Shot K-Kill should be rewarded in the code with a catastrophic explosion any way... you all know I like to rant about superior German gunnery optics but in actual fact I prefer to play the Allies and I really just want to make the Germans tanks with the 88mm more challenging to play because in the past I thought they missed too much. I'm not sure if anything has changed but the Germans in the Scenario I just played registered quite a few first shot hits, so in this case last night it "felt" like they were nailing their targets, even at long range. I have only played about 4 full games now since the update but the new v1.1b "feels" really GOOD! Its stable and now the Allies TD's will fire off their tungsten when they think they might need it. (YES!) To Charles and everyone at BTS, Steve and Matt and Dan : GREAT Work on the select Tungsten for firing choice CODE and on the tanks firing through light buildings, that sure keeps things interesting. And all the OTHER tweaks are GREAT, and of course TCP/IP is now priceless with that timer. This game just more entertaining and enjoyable with very new patch and update. Thanks again -tom w [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 12-06-2000).] [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 12-06-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoop Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 Yes as a German commander I have unfortunately found out that the American tanks will use their Tungsten now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted December 6, 2000 Author Share Posted December 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snoop: Yes as a German commander I have unfortunately found out that the American tanks will use their Tungsten now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, I think that EVENS things up a bit now, doesn't it? Even if the Allied TD's come with only one or two Tungsten Rounds They will fire them off and it does MAKE huge difference because if they get a hit they DO penetrate much better than the reg AP for sure. -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 Maybe that's what that damned "Bloody Tough Sherman M4A1(76)" fired at my Tiger to make it go BOOM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gronk Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w: Even if the Allied TD's come with only one or two Tungsten Rounds They will fire them off and it does MAKE huge difference because if they get a hit they DO penetrate much better than the reg AP for sure. -tom w<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It still isn't guarneteed that they will use the tungsten... I just had a Pershing bounce 5 AP rounds off the front of a JagTiger before he decided it might be a good idea to load one of his 7!!! tungsten rounds. Duh!!! Some TCs are smart. Some are lucky... Mine was lucky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted December 6, 2000 Share Posted December 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> The only part that disapointed me was the KT did not erupt in a catastrophic explosion, some how the JOY of a first Shot K-Kill should be rewarded in the code with a catastrophic explosion To Charles and everyone at BTS, Steve and Matt and Dan : GREAT Work on the select Tungsten for firing choice CODE and on the tanks firing through light buildings, that sure keeps things interesting. And all the OTHER tweaks are GREAT, and of course TCP/IP is now priceless with that timer. This game just more entertaining and enjoyable with very new patch and update. Thanks again -tom w [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 12-06-2000).] [This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 12-06-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> APCR or Tungsten ammo is a ‘shot’ and therefore contains no explosive charge making it less likely to cause a catastrophic explosion than a AP shell which contains a small HE charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 7, 2000 Share Posted December 7, 2000 Glad tungsten is making Allied players happy (and German ones sad ), but to be clear we have not made any changes to targeting code. That Super Pershing with the bunch of AP misses must have kept thinking "I can get it!!" otherwise it would have switched to tungsten. So my guess is that the chance of a successfull AP round penetration was right on the edge of going towards tungsten. Either the bunch of misses or a facing change by the enemy, which increased the chance of a bounce, made it finally decide it was time to give up on AP. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted December 7, 2000 Author Share Posted December 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: Glad tungsten is making Allied players happy (and German ones sad ), but to be clear we have not made any changes to targeting code. Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks for the very prompt reply. I did not really think the the accuracy or targeting code or chance to hit percentages actually changed, I was just reporting that in the games I've played lately it seemed as though there were not an unusually high number of misses? Maybe I'm just getting used to the frequency of misses in CM, or both sides were unsually lucky and got plenty of first shot hits? Who knows. But the v1.1b seems to feel like most things work very well and everything is well balanced and most previous issues have been effectivelly dealt with. It sure is FUN! -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted December 7, 2000 Author Share Posted December 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bastables: APCR or Tungsten ammo is a ‘shot’ and therefore contains no explosive charge making it less likely to cause a catastrophic explosion than a AP shell which contains a small HE charge. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> OK I admit that one of the most fun aspects of this game is the catastrophic k-kill explosion when a tank brews up, SURE I'ld like to see the turret blow up and pop off as well, but, I guess I do have to appreciate that you are of course correct to suggest the APCR round does not have any HE in it and it is in fact "just" a metallic projectile, BUT when you KO a hull down King Tiger with your first Shot at 200 meters from an immobile TD , my gut says "It should BLOW up and go BOOOM damn it!" Oh well it was fun anyway -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gronk Posted December 7, 2000 Share Posted December 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w: "It should BLOW up and go BOOOM damn it!" Oh well it was fun anyway -tom w<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> CM isn't supposed to be fun... It's supposed to be realistic... Fun is just the most common side effect. And of course, lack of sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gronk Posted December 7, 2000 Share Posted December 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: Glad tungsten is making Allied players happy (and German ones sad ), but to be clear we have not made any changes to targeting code. That Super Pershing with the bunch of AP misses must have kept thinking "I can get it!!" otherwise it would have switched to tungsten. So my guess is that the chance of a successfull AP round penetration was right on the edge of going towards tungsten. Either the bunch of misses or a facing change by the enemy, which increased the chance of a bounce, made it finally decide it was time to give up on AP. Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I would think that after 1 or 2 ricochets the TC would switch to tungsten. And considering that the JagdTiger is the largest tank in the game, one would think that tungsten would be the first choice in ammo. What is the TC saving it for, a battleship? If you havent tweeked the tungsten choice, would you consider it? Please, please, please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj. Bosco Posted December 7, 2000 Share Posted December 7, 2000 Gronk, Super Pershings are eminently capabable of putting an ordinary AP shell through a JT. The front superstructure is the only place they have trouble with. The tungsten tweak is great. I was sick of my hellcats firing off their HE before their T rounds. Great job BTS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gronk Posted December 7, 2000 Share Posted December 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maj. Bosco: Gronk, Super Pershings are eminently capabable of putting an ordinary AP shell through a JT. The front superstructure is the only place they have trouble with. The tungsten tweak is great. I was sick of my hellcats firing off their HE before their T rounds. Great job BTS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I respectfully dissagree. I think you are forgetting to take into account the armor slope of the JT. By my calculations the Super Pershing can penetrate only 110mm at a 50 degree angle (the slope of the JT hull armor) at 100m. That would only penetrate the lower hull. The upper hull armor is 150mm at 50 degrees. Plus the high angle also makes the risk of ricochet higher. At a little over 500m even lower hull penetrations would become unlikely. And one must also consider that the JT gun can penetrate the SP anywhere and from any range. So put yourself in the SP TC's shoes for a second. You are staring at a tank that can kill you with one shot. So you can choose to (A) use a tungsten round and probably get a kill, or ( use a AP round and hope to get real lucky. Now remember, your life hangs in the balance. Lets say you decide (. Your shot bounces off the front hull of the JT. The JT just barely misses you. Now you have a second chance. Do you choose ( again? How many times do you let the JT shoot at you before you decide to use a tungsten. Remember that any hit from the JT can kill you. Only one tank is going to leave the field today. Will it be you or him? If you get knocked out you lose ALL your tungsten rounds. Not to mention your tank. [This message has been edited by Gronk (edited 12-06-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted December 7, 2000 Share Posted December 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka_tom_w: OK I admit that one of the most fun aspects of this game is the catastrophic k-kill explosion when a tank brews up, SURE I'ld like to see the turret blow up and pop off as well, but, I guess I do have to appreciate that you are of course correct to suggest the APCR round does not have any HE in it and it is in fact "just" a metallic projectile, BUT when you KO a hull down King Tiger with your first Shot at 200 meters from an immobile TD , my gut says "It should BLOW up and go BOOOM damn it!" Oh well it was fun anyway -tom w<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It can still touch off the ammo or fuel. It's just not as effective as a AP shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Posted December 7, 2000 Share Posted December 7, 2000 One of my favorites has always been the M36 Jackson. Here's a screenshot of one of my better engagements with the Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted December 7, 2000 Share Posted December 7, 2000 Wow, looks like he had himself a busy day! The only question I would have for the Super Pershing TC who did not want to use his T round would be "What were you saving it for?" If you aren't going to use that Tungsten against a JagdTiger, what exactly are you going to use it against? The Bismarck? Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted December 7, 2000 Share Posted December 7, 2000 And what do you do when you meet the Bismarck in the forest and you just spent all your tungsten? What do you do then, I ask you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted December 7, 2000 Author Share Posted December 7, 2000 OK I tested Pershings and Super Pershings Against JagTigers and King Tigers Last night. The Pershings started with 5,6 or 7 tungsten rounds. All Pershings and Super Pershings fired their tungsten rounds FIRST against their King Tiger and Jagtiger targets. All tank crews were Veteran Crack or Elite. It was day time in Clear weather. They engaged them at about 200 m and all tungsten rounds that hit penetrated frontally. I would say, in this one test scenario, the Pershings did NOT hestitate at all to load the "good stuff" and fire off the tungsten straight away. It think they have fixed the tungsten problem very well and it feels just right now. Thanks again. -tom w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted December 7, 2000 Share Posted December 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: If you aren't going to use that Tungsten against a JagdTiger, what exactly are you going to use it against?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Answer: A straight column of Jagdtigers. One shot to kill'em all! Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Jochen- Posted December 7, 2000 Share Posted December 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Glad tungsten is making Allied players happy (and German ones sad)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah, screw them kraut players, always whining about everything... They deserve what they have given all right! ------------------ jochen Kids today! Why can't they fetishize Fascist military hardware like normal people? Ladysmith wants you forthwith to come to her relief Burn your briefs you leave for France tonight Carefully cut the straps of the booby-traps and set the captives free But don't shoot 'til you see her big blue eyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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