Wesreidau Posted June 28, 2000 Share Posted June 28, 2000 I believe I`m speaking for all the Brits and many Europeans here when I say we feel like John Frost and his guys stuck at Arnhem bridge, defending a hopeless position whilst trying to remain dignified and professional. Everytime the postman walks up the path its: "They`re here! Its XXX Corps chaps"..only to have our hopes dashed. We`ve been holding out for nearly 2 weeks and remain unsupplied. We cannot hold out much longer BTS.. Out of ammunition..God Save The King Out...click. ------------------ "No Regrets" [This message has been edited by Wesreidau (edited 06-28-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris talpas Posted June 28, 2000 Share Posted June 28, 2000 As part of 21st Army Group, we Canucks feel like we're in the same boat. So far only one person has reported receiving CM so far. So much for having shorter supply lines! My sincere wishes on your speedy relief Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted June 28, 2000 Share Posted June 28, 2000 We're on our way old boy. We've just crossed the river at Nijmegen. Wot? Tea you say? Right!! Sorry Frosty. slight delay you see. We're going to halt and have some tea. We will get moving again after that, I say say. Cheerio Gonville Bromhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted June 28, 2000 Share Posted June 28, 2000 Let's give you a clue here. Norway, rocks, fjords, storms, blizzards... I could go on for ages. I wonder if I'll ever receive my copy *sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesreidau Posted June 30, 2000 Author Share Posted June 30, 2000 This is Frost at Arnhem...package received, now at full fighting strength!! ------------------ "No Regrets" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tailz Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris talpas: As part of 21st Army Group, we Canucks feel like we're in the same boat. So far only one person has reported receiving CM so far. So much for having shorter supply lines! My sincere wishes on your speedy relief Chris<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Spot on old bean!! Clearing the Scheldt isn't as glamorous as cutting through the heart of Germany... hmmph, oh well, I guess it's an American show. (no disrespect to our southern neighbors) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patboivin Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 I feel more like the Poles in their landing zone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacAuliff Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris talpas: As part of 21st Army Group, we Canucks feel like we're in the same boat. So far only one person has reported receiving CM so far. So much for having shorter supply lines! My sincere wishes on your speedy relief Chris<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah and as long you do not have cleared that pocket of Breskens, Antwerp will not receive anything, I Think... There are still people who appreciate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 Simply incredible what the Brit 1st Airbourne had to endure. Unsupplied, no reinforcements or replacements, taking on an SS Panzer Division (what was left of them). . . . I remember that scene from "A Bridge Too Far" where the US paratrooper officer (Paul Newman??) manages to capture the last bridge before Arnhem and then British XXX Corps just stops. The Yank cannot believe they are just sitting there while their own boys are getting slaughtered up the road. Imagine if Patton did the same thing to the 101st at Bastogne simply because he didn't have proper infantry support and let the SS troops wipe the 101st. Talk about being in the doghouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eichmann2 Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 Originally poated by Blackhorse: -------------------------------------- We're on our way old boy. We've just crossed the river at Nijmegen. Wot? Tea you say? Right!! 'Sorry Frosty. slight delay you see. We're going to halt and have some tea. We will get moving again after that, I say say. Cheerio Gonville Bromhead' ----------------------------------------- Well done mate, I am one for good old homour, but it's 'good to see' that Hollywood inspired anti-English pap is still alive and well-NOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eichmann2 Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 Delete 'Homour' Insert 'Humour' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talenn Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 Commisar: It was Robert Redford ; ) "...What? You cant stop...not now...Those are BRITISH Troops dying at Arnhem...and you're just gonna stop?...and drink TEA!?!?!" Great Scene, Great Movie. Talenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 Robert Rudford.. . . Somehow I kept thinking of the popcorn guy but it didn't seem right. Anyway, every single one of those guys in the Brit 1st Airbourne should've been given the Victoria Cross or something for just surviving as long as they did . . . or at least have ten minutes alone with the head commander of the Brit XXX Corps in a soundproof room so they can "express" their displeasure at XXX Corps' halt. [This message has been edited by Commissar (edited 07-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 Actually, I tend to put most of the blame on Monty and his staff, who were so intent on doing something dramatic to steal the show away from Patton that they listened to none of their intelligence experts who tried to warn them of the presence of the two SS Panzer divisions nor to their airborne experts who tried to tell them that the drop zones were all wrong. The whole operation was cocked up from the start. The amazing thing is that it came as close to success as it did. That may be proof of two things: after five years of war, the Germans were pretty well worn down and the Allies had finally figured out effective ways to utilize their strengths and minimize their liabilities. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commissar: . . . or at least have ten minutes alone with the head commander of the Brit XXX Corps in a soundproof room so they can "express" their displeasure at XXX Corps' halt.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You'll need to read A Bridge Too Far (Especially chapter 12 of Part 4) and rethink that statement. That bit in the movie was a nice scene... but not strictly the truth. The problem was that the road from Nijmegen was on a raised levee road. while the whole XXX Corps line of advance was one tank wide, up until that point, they could go off the road an manuver a bit. Not on that last stretch of highway. So when they DID try and break out of Nijmegen and ran up that highway with 20 minutes of planning and a captured map (because the ones that they had originally was pretty much blank in that area), they were interdicted by a lone german self propelled gun... And then everything seemed to go balls up. THey had an RAF Air - Ground coordinator with them and his radio went out... THye had a battery of guns to call on but they were woefully slow to register a target... The relief column was stopped half way to Arnhem, but they did try and I've always thought that scene in the movie was unfair as it didn't have the context to show what was really happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commissar: or at least have ten minutes alone with the head commander of the Brit XXX Corps in a soundproof room so they can "express" their displeasure at XXX Corps' halt. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Have to agree with Compassion here. But of course that is a far too complex story to relate in a movie, so far better to go for some Brit-bashing. Good old Hollywood. The Germans managed very well and just ahead of time to put battle-group Knaust into Elst, and they managed to break into the road in the rear at Veghel again and again. The difficulties of fighting in the area can be seen when you have a look at what it took the Allies to clear the Island between Nijmegen and Arnhem later. Also, in the same area, and not much later, the US 7th Armoured put in a pretty hapless show against the 180th German division around Oploon and Venrai. The job was eventually finished by the UK 3rd ID. The problem was that part of the operation beyond Nijmegenn was just cocked-up to start with. I guess that after the 'swan' through northern France and Belgium the German recovery came as a bit of a shock. Also, the German theatre commander Model in Oosterbeek had a bit of experience in chaotic situations from the war in Russia, so he was not too fuzzed about an airborne division dropping onto his HQ and kept his nerve. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eichmann2: Well done mate, I am one for good old homour, but it's 'good to see' that Hollywood inspired anti-English pap is still alive and well-NOT.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Easy lad. Wesreidau is a great friend of mine and my post was in jest as a response to his original post. You know, the one where he was talking about being like Frost stranded at Arnhem without his CM. Mine then meant it was on the way, but had become delayed in transit. The Bromhead reference was to Michael Caine, who played Bromhead in Zulu and the CO of the Irish Guards in ABTF. If you thought that was anti-English, then you are completely off track, and might need to calibrate your sensitivity meter. Allons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 Hehe, has anyone tried sending nothing but British armour up that raised-road-through-boggy-polder in the 'Island' operation of CC2?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 By the way, where the hell was the air support during Operation Market Garden? Movies based on history are not exactly the most accurate teaching tool but I did notice in the movie "A Bridge Too Far" that there was a blaring absence of air support. Was it the weather? Busy somewhere else? Monty think that using harsh language would be enough to get the Germans to run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: Have to agree with Compassion here. But of course that is a far too complex story to relate in a movie, so far better to go for some Brit-bashing. Good old Hollywood. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not to really defend Hollywood, but wasn't ABTF directed by the British Lord Sir Richard Attenborough ? [This message has been edited by Blackhorse (edited 07-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argie Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 The lack of air support was a mix between bad weather, poor supply and fear of friendly fire in the chaotic battle... Very few airports were operatives in France and Netherlands at the time, and most of the air operations comes directly from England... M-G was done because was the only spot in range for airplanes from England in the front. Ariel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted July 3, 2000 Share Posted July 3, 2000 Gee that damn tea scene has a lot to answer for doesn't it? Just goes to show that even those one would expect to have a clue can get the wrong end of the stick from watching a movie. Though I recognise it was in jest it does crop up with alarming frequency when Arnhem discussions occur. Hard to beleive that so many misconceptions can still exist about such a well documented operation. Ryan's book contains it's own fair share of factual errors too so I wouldn't just rely on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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