Good American 60mm mortar trick

[Guest grunto]

i find it useful in a scenario to try and get all of the 60mm mortars together, with a company commander or platoon leader. if you put the 60mms all out of los over a ridge and have a command unit within command radius of all of them, the command unit can spot for them for purposes of indirect fire.

it gives you an added onboard battery. to me it seems better than deploying them piecemeal.

andy

[Guest Big Time Software]

In general, not a bad idea. However, I think you will find that this greatly reduces your tactical support on many maps. Rises, woods, etc. might make it so that you can only support one area and not another. Again, this might not be a bad idea, but personally I try and keep one 60mm in support of each platoon.

Steve

[Guest grunto]

yes i have a habit thus far of sometimes denuding the rifle squads of their heavy support, then putting the heavy weapons from several platoons into a separate 'unit' or fire support group.

for instance in vot i'll take the german cc, his mg42, and the 3 pzks from the 3 platoons along with the 2 81mm mortars. the squads without their pzks have to try and close within faust range. they do have immediate mg42 support though. this leaves me with an 'extra unit' meeting in those interlocking woods between the 2nd and 3rd setup zone.

this 'extra unit' has 2 81mm mortars, 3 pzks, a cc and an mg42 hmg. i try to use the 81mm in stealth at the beginning and then the 3pzks and the m42 in an ambush role later in the battle.

i'm doing all kinds of 'experimental stuff' ... for instance loading a bunch of shermans up with infantry and just charging forward in an attempt to break through and set up a fire platform in the enemy rear. it is a bit disheartening when they get chewed up but when they have success they _really_ have success... no guts no glory eh?

maybe all of this unorthodox stuff has/will cost me but it sure is fun. sometimes it works out.

anyhow maybe i'll keep the units together and see how they work that way... mixin' and matchin' sure is fun though -g-

andy

[Jochen2]

I always play CE with a concentrated force of 3 60mm mortars. Works very fine, when the Germans are coming up the hill in the north-east.

But, i think it´s works only well, ´cause i know the scenario and the AI-moves.

Greetings

Jochen

[Guest Germanboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jochen2:

I always play CE with a concentrated force of 3 60mm mortars. Works very fine, when the Germans are coming up the hill in the north-east.

But, i think it´s works only well, ´cause i know the scenario and the AI-moves.

Greetings

Jochen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As Steve said, you can do it in CE b/c there it is very suitable terrain. I liked doing that as well. If you do it like that in VoT, you really can get your infantry in trouble.

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Andreas

The powers of accurate perception are often called cynicism by those who do not possess them. (forgot who said it)

[jgdpzr]

Yo Grunto!

So what experimental stuff you going to try on me?

Waiting & watching...

[Juju]

The battery idea is a fine one. I've used it myself. At other times, however, I include a mortar and an MG in a platoon if possible, as long as they have a clear objective and do not need to hurry. Platoons that go "hunting" behind enemy lines need to be mobile, so I don't attach mortars or MG's to them. Maybe the occasional bazooka, or Schreck, but these guys also tire quickly and usually can't keep up either.

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Combat Axiom 46. Do unto others, before they do unto you.

[Moon]

I usually split my heavy weapons to the individual platoons. I like to have them advance along the platoons in the initial (slower) phase and only detach them to provide covering fire when I need the mobility of my infantry (i.e. assault). Even in scenarios with good lines of fire, teaming up your heavy weapons might be a bad idea when the enemy decides to use its artillery.

[Guest Big Time Software]

Two good points raised above. One is that this tactic works much better when you know what to expect. Otherwise you are gambling and putting all your eggs in one basket. This will undoubtably come around and bite you on the butt more often than you might think The second point is that CE is a very wide open map by most standards, which works much better with the "battery" concept. VoT is as well, but there is the valley on the US right flank that totally separates it from the other side of the map. However, you can overcome this to some degree because of the first point (i.e. knowing the battle). This is why I say that in general it is something you should stay away from. But the cool thing is that you will see for yourself what the truth is very soon

Steve

[TZEENCH]

I find it easier to seprate the hvy weapons to each platoon then, Detach them when there is a good fire point or need to hold a FLAG- (you stay here, and keep the germans away!)

Cant wait for jeeps ........

[Buckeye]

I wonder if separating the 60 mm mortars into a separate "battery" is something that was ever done by a company commander. From the books I've read, it doesn't sound like a very common practice, not least because the platoon leaders probably would have groused about the lack of protection. Does anyone know if detached mortar "batteries" occurred at the company level?

[Guest Scott Clinton]

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Buckeye:</P>

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I wonder if separating the 60 mm mortars into a separate "battery" is something that was ever done by a company commander. </P>

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That's odd, from what I read that was the norm. And if you go by the OOB it was the way 'it was supposed to be'.</P>

From what I read the only time that a company's 60s were grouped together in a battery was when the company was dug in for defense and wire was laid to the platoon HQs or when an assault over 'open ground' had to be conducted and they were held back to give covering fire.</P>

I remember from the book "Company Commander" he always seemed to separate the 60s when advancing, and group them when dug in... I think it was probably a commander's 'call' and was dictated by the situation and the commander's personality.</P></FONT></BODY>

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Please note: The above is solely the opinion of 'The Grumbling Grognard' and reflects no one else's views but his own.

[Buckeye]

Actually, now that you mention it, I do recall from Company Commander and other books that 60 mm mortar squads were sometimes grouped pretty closely together when a company was in defensive positions. I guess I was thinking about attacking, based on some of the earlier posts, which mentioned detached platoons "behind the lines." In a stationary position, it might well pay off to have the mortars close by each other.But I think it'd be dangerous when attacking, for the reasons Steve mentioned earlier.

[Black Sabot]

Actually, one of my favorite tricks with a 60mm mortar is to fill it full of beer and chug it.

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"I do like to see the arms and legs fly"

[Formerly Babra]

If the tube is broke, can I just throw the bombs?

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When I die I want to go peacefully, like my grandfather, in his sleep -- not screaming, like the passengers in his car

[Buckeye]

Actually, I prefer the 81 mm for that purpose!

[Murx]

As far as I know nowadays German PanzerGrenadier Battalions got up to 4 M110??? (don't exactly know, these tracked APC that serve as platform for all type of things, like Command, FOV, Sani, ABC-Abwehr etc) with 120mm mortars, normally they put them together as a battery. Same goes for the Milan (AT-Launcher), they got 4 per Kp and put them in ne platoon.

murx

[Guest Big Time Software]

Buckeye,

Yeah, on defense the situation can be different depending on the circumstances. Look at the default positions for the German 81mm mortars in VoT. They are within something like 10m of each other. If I were the Americans defending that hill I would probably have at least 2 out of my 3 company 60mm mortars up there. The reason why I probably wouldn't have all 3 up there is because their range is somewhat limited and I probably want to have one covering a flank or something.

Steve

[Guest Germanboy]

In a VoT PBEM I am currently playing as the US, I have a mortar advance together with the other troops, roughly along the road, hanging back a bit. During a road crossing, the rifle platoon were taken under fire by a HMG team, causing casualties and general lack of enthusiasm alround among my GIs. The HMG team was situated such that I only had LOS from the trouble spot. Within a few seconds of getting into command radius of the troubled platoon HQ with LOS on the HMG, the mortar was putting down a barrage on them, and convinced them that caution is the mother of the porcelain trunk. They duly departed the hot spot and are now being cut down in the open. Very useful these mortars, very useful.

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Andreas

The powers of accurate perception are often called cynicism by those who do not possess them. (forgot who said it)

[Schugger]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Murx:

As far as I know nowadays German PanzerGrenadier Battalions got up to 4 M110??? (don't exactly know, these tracked APC that serve as platform for all type of things, like Command, FOV, Sani, ABC-Abwehr etc) with 120mm mortars, normally they put them together as a battery. Same goes for the Milan (AT-Launcher), they got 4 per Kp and put them in ne platoon.

murx<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello Murx

Yep, the fifth company of a PzGrenBat is the equipped with mortars. Concerning the Milan AT Rocket launcher each squat in each platoon of the Company is equipped with them. They can be fired by the TC from the SPz Marder ( Schützenpanzer) while unbuttoned but normaly there were used by the infantry with a crew of two ( loader and gunner).

[Buckeye]

Well, gee, I feel sort of special...not even a member yet, and I got a reply from Steve!

In all seriousness (sort of), I appreciate your point, Steve. I do tend to group mortars when I want firepower and have what looks to be a static defense. As you suggested earlier, though, when on the attack, it helps to have a mortar squad attached to each platoon, especially if they are dispersed across the battle field.

Seems like that is pretty much how things were done in "real life," at least by my reading.

[Mannheim Tanker]

Murx: Are you referring to the M113 chasis that the US first developed during the Vietnam War? I didn't realize that the Bundeswehr used them as well if so...My armor company (1990's) used M113A3's as 81mm mortar platforms - and grouped them into a single heavy weapons platform. A lot has changed with the composition of mechanized units since WWII, however, so I can't comment on whether that was the norm back then. I do recall stories of this taking place in WWII.

EDIT: I should point out that I was in an American armor company (my handle has confused a few people already).

[This message has been edited by Mannheim Tanker (edited 06-11-2000).]

[Murx]

Yes that M113 chassis is what I mean, its used i a large array of servies as I noted, but got a number for each of the special modificatins. As far as I know there are a minimum of 5 different versions.

murx