"Gamey" Intelligence?

[Krinks]

I wonder if anyone could give me an opinion for future reference. I lost a recon element that was providing valuable intel on enemy positions, since the enemy is out of my direct LOS. As luck would have it, an airstrike was only about 2 minutes away and, when the plane flew overhead, the positions of the enemy units were revealed.

My question is this:

Is it gamey of me to take a screen capture of the position of enemy forces as the plane is flying over, and use that as a guide to direct artillery supportand unit movement? Would a real battlefield commander be able to use visual spotting or gun camera footage from the plane to assist his field units?

I'm not playing against someone, so it doesn't matter if this is a cheat or not, but I don't want to do it in an actual game against someone if it's not realistic.

Thanks for the input

[ September 29, 2002, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: Krinks ]

[James Sterrett]

You'll get mixed opinions on this one.

The general consensus seems to be that using airstrikes for recon is not something that a strike aircraft could realistically do.

However, while some therefore won't do it (including me), others shrug their shoulders and decide the game engine allows it and they'll do it. It's a matter of taste.

[Stoffel]

No its not gamey,I would not mind it actuaslly I do that too.

The game Spot report gives you the same info about sightings and positions of the units but it takes a lot of time to verify all the grid coordinates.

[SGT Casey]

In real life I think a commander holding a picture of enemy unit positions gained by an overflying aircraft is not out of the question.

Dave

[Krinks]

Originally posted by James Sterrett:

The general consensus seems to be that using airstrikes for recon is not something that a strike aircraft could realistically do.

If it helps to know, I actually did use the aircraft for a strike. I had some units having difficulty with ATGM and armor units, and the strike was meant to soften them up some. It just also happened to reveal enemy positions as well.

[Jeff Gilbert]

Not gamey at all! I think it is a good use of your available tactical resources. The "snapshot" gained will be of immediate tactical value [less than 5 minutes], but in short order most of what you saw has moved.

It is also very useful in trying to predict where your enemy is moving to.

Good gaming ...

[Redwolf]

Well, TacOps only has the attack planes, and no recon planes unless you use on-map UAVs.

So, I interpret the off-map planes I get as either/or and then feel free to use them either in the attack or the recon role.

The only "problem" is that you often get the recon planes back when they didn't find anything, so the value is higher. Usually, though, they bomb a single squad and then go home to show the medals they earned from their run

[ September 30, 2002, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: redwolf ]

[minmax]

I don't think its beyond the pale to use CAS and Interdiction strikes to pass intel on to you. Most of the time there is an airborne FAC that would pass on such intel and I am willing to bet in all that neat look down gadgetry (sp?) that a digital image could be forwarded to your 'command post'.

Just don't rely on Air Force types they hate CAS that's why everything that does not haul cargo is called a fighter. Stealth fighter yeah right. I would rely on what a Marine pilot tells you at least he/she knows what an M-16 looks like and which end the rounds come out.

[Mike Robel]

After a strike, pilots radio the supporting FAC and/or Army headquarters with their observations. This normally includes an estimate of what they did to the target, but also can include information about the surrounding units/terraine/situation.

[Covert Sniper]

I have noticed that if my strike aircraft appear during the first pulse of the combat phase, say 10 seconds into the combat phase, that as each 15 second pulse goes by, I lose sight of more and more of the units sighted by the strike aircraft. By the end of the combat phase, I have lost sight of some, many, most and sometimes all of the units sighted by strike aircraft. (Is this correct game behavior?)

I see no reason why a screen capture at the end of the combat phase would not be reasonable intelligence because not all sighted units remain on screen. I assume that this would simulate a pilot under strees in combat at VERY high speed being able to give a report of units sighted but not being able to remember the whole picture. Gun cameras can not look every direction at all times and reviewing the images they captured would take several minutes at best. After all, five minutes later the tacical situation has probably changed significantly.

Personally, I do not do a screen capture, but if I spot a lot of armor during the bombing run, it usually a good time for a missle stike in that area.

Happy TacOpting,

Randy

[minmax]

I can only speak to my limited information of Marine aviation and some Air Force. I know that craft on strikes are mounted with a fore (gun camera and hud recorder) and dedicated strike birds (F/A-18s, A-6s, F-111s, A-10s, F-16s, Tornados, AV8s) have an aft camera for BDA (Bomb Damage Assessment) purposes. This info in some CRT capable craft can be reviewed during the egress and also can be digitally transmitted to a TACC (Tactical Air Command Center) or a MASS (Marine Air Support Squadron). So its not impossible for realtime info. Again this is not foolproof if Johnny Jock is dodging radar guided AAA and shoulder launched and vehicle mounted SAMs the images won't be that clear. And realistically one of the major problems during the Gulf War was attack pilots passing on a SPOT report like "Man that's a sh*tload of tanks at point Mavis" I have observed when people get shot at that numbers of enemy units grow exponentially based on the amount of danger one imagines they are in. Bottom Line count the number and guess as best you can.

In Marine logic that means

Sh*tload = 15 or less

The whole *&^*%^% Iraqi army = 15 to 30

Oh my God I didn't know there were that many in the world = over 30

Hey TAOC tell the CAS birds they are in for a real sh*t -sandwhich = The whole Iraqi army is here and is loaded for bear

I don't know if this clears or muddies the issue but its my experience at least (I know counts for squat)

"Hey Beeker, how many SA-2s per Launcher?..."

[Redwolf]

Wild idea:

how about randomizing the TacOps air spot report a bit? Inflate this and that number, miss this and that, and sometimes by a lot.