Joe Shaw Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 So there I was, in the middle of a PBEM battle in the snow. I had a Pz IV facing a Stuart and with an M8 on his flank. Suddenly the M8 scores and knocks the Pz IV out ... HUZZAH! ... but wait, about two seconds later the M8 just ... blows up. And I have no idea where it came from I've looked at the replay over and over again from every possible angle and for all I know the driver could have lit a cigarette and tossed the match into a puddle of gas (he was French, these things are possible). So now I'm tippy toeing around town wondering where the hell the Wrath of God will strike next Is this a great game or what? Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniperscope Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 hahaha almost had the same situation here. In a scenario that will remain nameless, I had my panther in Hunt mode inching it's way towards a town held by the allies. The panther is in buttoned up mode and spots what appears to be an allied infantry squad. No problem I'm thinking this should be cake. Boom!! my panther gets knocked out by infantry? 100 meters away? no way jose so I replay the move watching the action from the panthers level (1) and see a projectile coming towards the panther. Thats not an infantry squad dam it to hell, that's an AT team!!! Gotta love this game. sniperscope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redleg Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 I love the FOW system in this game, it sure does make for a more intense and uncertain game. Perhaps the two tanks shot each other? The two projos crossed each other in flight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted June 30, 2000 Author Share Posted June 30, 2000 As I said, for all I know it was a random Act of God I looked very carefully, I saw no projectiles that might have been 'fausts, 'shrecks or grenades. If it was arty or mortars they hit on the first shot and the only shot. I don't THINK the Mk IV got him due to the time delay ... the only other possibilty is that there is a "tank" sound contact. I suppose my M8 crew didn't see him and he popped them. But my point is that the FOW in this game makes it so much better than anything I've seen. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzzlehead Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 I complained about the freedom of usage concerning the Panzerfausts, that is till firing one at a squad from inside of a building caused the whole building to burst into flames. Now I did not expect that……… Sure fire your panzerfausts at us you girly men…your gonna burn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwstet Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 and hopefully you won't find out where it came from Joe!! Honestly, I'll have to look at the IV's stats when I get the turn back from you ... I "thought" he got the M8.... Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soliloquy Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joe Shaw: I looked very carefully, I saw no projectiles that might have been 'fausts, 'shrecks or grenades. Joe<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If the 'shreck team is unspotted, I don't believe that you will see the projectile. A fantasitic FOW aspect, IMO. I'm going to have to find another nervous habit. I don't have any fingernails left after playing this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdmorse Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 In a VoT PBEM just before release I had a Sherman (immobile) in the wheat field on the left flank but w/ LOS to the area that the Panther arrives. The 76 back on the start ridge w/ overlook to the crest of the Plomville hill, and another Sherman near the crest. I try to avoid things that are based on my knowledge of senario, but this was how it played out anywy and I am thinking okay, Mr Panther you are dead.. Boom, my arty starts a fire over behind the church, the 76's los is blocked. No trouble he's still flanked from the wheat field on my left flank. Okay, wait for it, wait for it............BLAM the Sherman is toast! What the...... Somehow the Panther, balls out on a fast move pops a shot before I ever see him!!! Bummer.But ya got to love the full FOW!!!! [This message has been edited by jdmorse (edited 06-30-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaffertape Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 Even the Gold Demo impresses (it has to, until the real thing gets here). I had a Sherman in VOT get toasted, and there is no sign of any projectile. Don't know if it was a schreck, faust or the Panther (none of which were visible to any of my forces). Served me right though... Cruising along a ridge with my flank towards the enemy lines. GAFF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 playing a quick battle, i am advancing... French troops on German position. platoon abrest - mg's covering. i begin to take fire from the front, the french squad furthest right (lovers, not fighters) decides to return to some cover recently vacated... MY mg's (thats right the FRENCH) open up on MY infantry!!! just one burst, no casualties but what a great incentive to not fall back on your own! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 Sarge, was the MG actually firing *at* the platoon? I've noticed one thing that CM is careless about (one of the *very few* things, I might add) is that firing units regularly fire *through* friendly units. In real life this is a real no-no. I also saw a Sherman tracing its LOS/LOF through a house yesterday. This struck me as so odd that I viewed it from several angles just to be sure I wasn't mistaken. While the actual shell trajectory might have passed over the house, no way could it have had an LOS. I should add that at the moment this occurred the house was occupied by a friendly unit, which made the house transparent. I didn't think to turn off that feature and see if the Sherman was still tracing its LOS/LOF through the building. But the point is, I don't think units should be able to fire through friendly units, or even over them unless there is a fairly generous vertical separation of the LOF and the friendly unit, like 25 meters say. Michael [This message has been edited by Michael emrys (edited 06-30-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soliloquy Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys: Sarge, was the MG actually firing *at* the platoon? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Isn't friendly-fire in the game? I seem to recall that troops can fire on fellow troops, particularly in fog or heavy smoke. Madmatt had some POTD up showing this a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdmorse Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 Of course if it was a night battle, friendly fire can happen, as I have learned a couple of times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted June 30, 2000 Author Share Posted June 30, 2000 Ah c'mon Jeff, tell me Seriously, if you can check the stats and then tell me later I'd love to know. I didn't think to look at the turret of the Mk IV but I thought he was engaging the M8. Actually, now that I think about it, it could have been either the Stuart or the M8 that hit him, though I think it was the M8. Either way it was pretty neat. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 Michael emrys- yes.. AT the troops! because the enemy units where straight ahead, and the friendlies were off to the right, where NO enemy units were located. fire did not pass thru friendlies to point beyond either. however i forgot to mention: YES it was a dusk AND overcast setting! so visiblity was very limited...200 meters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted June 30, 2000 Share Posted June 30, 2000 I can verify that friendly fire is indeed in the game. In a recent night-time scenario, I was shocked during the orders phase to realize that *two* of my units had traced targetting lines to two of my other units! Naturally, I gave them new orders. This seemed realistic to me, especially since the units firing at each other were not part of a single battle line, but were in different clusters of troops. I can easily imagine how the mistake was made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick_Oz Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 Originally posted by Joe Shaw: Ah c'mon Jeff, tell me Actually, now that I think about it, it could have been either the Stuart or the M8 that hit him, though I think it was the M8. Either way it was pretty neat. Joe.. personally, I'd go with the French cigarette theory. Sounds right to me. Sacre bleu! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 Joe Shaw said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>but wait, about two seconds later the M8 just ... blows up. And I have no idea where it came from<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If the thing that kills you has not been spotted yet, you won't see the projectile coming. Just BOOM, you're dead for no apparent reason. I remember back with the beta demo I was playing Riesburg for the umpteenth time and had made it into town. My tanks were advancing down the streets a couple houses behind the grunts, happily blasting any German troops who showed themselves. Suddenly, 1 Sherman got killed. I must have watched it 10-15 times from various angles trying to figure it out but never saw what hit it. Nor did I hear the weapon fire. My own grunts, as I said, were in front of the tank and had reached the edge of the town square. No German grunts were visible in the square or the buildings on the other side. So the only thing I could think of was that I'd walked into the LOS of an 88 on the hill on the far side of town. Thus, my next orders were based on that assumption and tried to avoid a repetition. My other tanks hugged walls out of LOS of the hill. However, during the next turn, I discovered the answer. Suddenly there was a puff of smoke beside some bushes out in the square and a nearly simultaneous explosion against a wall beside another tank. But still no visible projectile. Then a few seconds later, a schreck team appeared. Once it was seen, my troops quickly dispatched it. But the FOW prevented me from even seeing the backblast of the 1st shot and I didn't spot the unit until after it had fired the 2nd shot, although I saw the backblast for that one. ------------------ -Bullethead It was a common custom at that time, in the more romantic females, to see their soldier husbands and sweethearts as Greek heroes, instead of the whoremongering, drunken clowns most of them were. However, the Greek heroes were probably no better, so it was not so far off the mark--Flashman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19 Echo Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys: I also saw a Sherman tracing its LOS/LOF through a house yesterday. This struck me as so odd that I viewed it from several angles just to be sure I wasn't mistaken. While the actual shell trajectory might have passed over the house, no way could it have had an LOS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This came up in another thread. BTS said that it's a result of the way the LOS routine and the terrain tiles interact. Basically, LOS can be traced through the corner of a building. I've noticed this in most battles I've played. It's annoying, but they said that computing true LOS would eat up too much CPU power. Just mentally note that the building isn't as big as it appears to be, so if you hide behind one, make sure you hide behind the middle of it. -- 19 Echo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Weaver Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 I've seen friendly fire in the Bruyeres scenario, which takes place at night. Some of my troops were falling back from an advance position that had gotten overrun and they drew a few inaccurate bullets from my MLR. It's not that hard to avoid, just make sure to keep an eye on what your troops are doing and where exactly those targeting lines are going. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted July 1, 2000 Share Posted July 1, 2000 "This came up in another thread. BTS said that it's a result of the way the LOS routine and the terrain tiles interact. Basically, LOS can be traced through the corner of a building. I've noticed this in most battles I've played. It's annoying, but they said that computing true LOS would eat up too much CPU power. Just mentally note that the building isn't as big as it appears to be, so if you hide behind one, make sure you hide behind the middle of it. -- 19 Echo" The LOS in question went right through the *middle* of the house at about head height. About friendly fire, yes I have no problem with units getting confused at night or other low-visibility situations and mis-identifying friendlies. My gripe is when it is daylight, there is no confusion, friendly units are not being targetted. It's just that enemy units that lie beyond friendly units in the line of sight are being fired on, and the fire passes through the intervening friendly, causing no friendly casualties by the way. This is pretty unrealistic. Michael [This message has been edited by Michael emrys (edited 07-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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