Hunter Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 I searched and couldn't find the answer anywhere...so </p> Are you prevented from shooting a Piat at a target that is too CLOSE when you are in the top storey of a building?</p> As I understand it, the shell sits in the tray next to the spring, and would slide out before it could be fired if the angle of the tube was too great?</p> Bruce</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 Also, are PIAT's harder to spot after they have fired? Since there is no smoke trail, or ignition sound wouldn't these things take longer to spot? The Canadians/British have to have something going for them on squad level, since they don't have Semi-automatic Rifles like the Americans, or SMG squads like the Germans. They are left with squads of Lee Enfield bolt actions, with Sten's and Bren's. What is the composition of a typical British squad? Did the British have SMG squads? Not much has been said about their composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Peltz Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 My friend's father was in the 6th Airborne Division for D-Day: he hated the PIAT because it was a terrible thing to try and cock the spring for a shot. If you didn't pay strict attention to what you were doing, you could really wreck your groin. It was also almost impossible to cock laying down (as in a trench, ditch, etc)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 Hunter, not sure about the minimum engagement range. I'll ask about that, but I suspect so. And I don't know for SURE about spotting PIATs being tougher, but I just played a great battle with Brits and Poles. PIATs were the only thing I had, and it wasn't nearly enough!!! But they did seem to stay hidden pretty well. However, I hit the side of a Jagdtiger and did nothing more than piss it off. The 128mm HE round that came back at me took out a house, a squad, and an HQ unit, but left the PIAT team nothing more than Shaken! Don't worry, I made the dumbheads appologize for taking such a stupid shot at 150m at a target they couldn't possibly kill Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 <table> <tr> <td bgcolor=#648277><font color=#e7e9de size="-1"><div align="center" valign=center>Jagdtiger? *sigh* </div></font> </td><td bgcolor=#e7e9de><font color=black> *lol* Everytime I read something like the above from BTS I feel tempted to hijack a plane, paradrop on BTS' office, whack someone on the head and teleport back home with a copy of... whatever it is (near-gold?). And then I lock myself away somewhere where noone can find me. *just dreaming* </font> </td> </tr> </table> [This message has been edited by Lindan (edited 12-31-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 Lindan: I know, pisses you off don't it "Oh well, I had a Piat (which WE don't have) fired by Brits and Polish troops (which WE don't have)at a Jagtiger (which WE ...)." Mind you I don't actually want them to stop saying those things ... exactly ... I mean it's nice to know ... kinda ... but still ... I mean damnit it's worse than Amanda Jensen in High School and she was the biggest tease in the valley! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 Haha.. sorry about that I should have lied and said the PIAT was used against a Kübelwagen or something I checked with Charles. He knows of no practical minimum range other than safety from being hit by your own explosion. Anybody have any data to challenge this? As for the spotting thing, Charles also tells me that he hasn't changed the spotting values as of right now, but it is on The List (should make it into Gold release). Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cueball Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 Do they make a silly >SPROING< sound when they fire? Leave it to the Brits to come up with a semi-effective spring loaded weapon in WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Peltz Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 Here are some more tidbits on the PIAT: - The round was not actually launched by the spring- each round had a small explosive base charge that the spring drove a spigot into; this launched the round off the spigot. - The PIAT could not be fired from the hip or even from the shoulder- it was usually fired in the prone position. It weighed 32lb, and had a good kick, both of which could cause serious injury if fired from other than prone - It fired a 3lb bomb to a max range of 110 yds at about 250 ft/sec, initial velocity. It could also be used as a crude mortar out to 750 yds. It was 39 inches long. - The trigger was so stiff that two fingers had to be used to pull it, tending to throw off aim. Also, there was a pause between pulling the trigger and the round actually leaving the launcher- anybody who forgot this invariably loosened their grip and got a painful punch in the shoulder, plus the spring would not recock (the explosive charge also recocked the spring when it fired the bomb- you only had to manually cock the spring for the first shot). - It could be fired in an enclosed space without danger to the occupants- unlike the Panzerschreck and Bazooka. - It remained the standard platoon AT weapon until 1950 (issued one per platoon, normally) - The inventor, Lt Col Blacker (ret'd) successfully pleaded patent rights to the design in 1944 and was awarded the equivalent of $150,000 US for his troubles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Deans Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 "What is the composition of a typical British squad?" A Commonwealth section at the time had a paper strength of 10. A corporal in command and a lance-corporal as the 2ic. The section was broken in two groups. The Rifle Group (7 men) and the Bren Group (3 men). The Rifle Group, under the corporal, was the element used to close with enemy. It was supported by the Bren Group and its Bren Gun under the lance corporal. The section was armed with a SMG (Sten in NW Europe) for the commander, and rifles for all the rest except the Bren gunner who had the Bren. Sections of four or five were commonplace at various times throughout a campaign. Rob Deans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Peltz Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 Here is a web page describing the PIAT in action- Canadian readers may find this of particular interest: http://www.harrypalmergallery.ab.ca/galwarvetstwo/smith.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eichmann2 Posted December 31, 1999 Share Posted December 31, 1999 Here is an interesting incident for you involving a PIAT in action, ( I'm sorry if you are already initiated). Fusilier Francis Jefferson was awarded the Victoria Cross in May 1944 on the Gustav Line at Monte Cassino, Italy. His battalion had just dug hasty defensive positions prior to a German counter-attack. During the opening phase, Fusilier Jefferson dashed forward into open ground while under enemy machine gun fire and firing from the hip (!) successfully engaged a MK 4 Panzer at close range, destroying it. He then went on to reload in cover and moved forward again to engage a second tank, which subsequently withdrew. The men of his company felt he should have recieved the award for the method of fire alone!! Best wishes to you all and HAPPY (hic!) NEW YEAR!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter Posted January 2, 2000 Author Share Posted January 2, 2000 BTS, The argument for a minimum range is principally one of mechanics, based on how the thing worked (ie: sliding out of the tray problem). I will work on finding manuals, instructions, SOPs or anecdotes to back up the notion. Anybody else got any? Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Jones Posted January 2, 2000 Share Posted January 2, 2000 I asked about the Piat a while back on the Tanker's forum and one of the regulars said that the piat had a retaining clip in the launcher that would allow the weapon to be fired below the horizontal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 3, 2000 Share Posted January 3, 2000 The round falling out would probably only be an issue if the weapon was up high and the target down low. So this wouldn't be a range thing by itself, but an angle instead. And if it did have a retaining clip (I'm pretty sure I read that was added for obvious reasons) even this wouldn't be a problem or at least reduced. So at the moment we aren't instituting a minimum range because it seems wrong (and if it is right we have NO idea what it should be ). Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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