Kraut Posted May 21, 2000 Share Posted May 21, 2000 +25% seems right. Though 50% is good too ... MK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 21, 2000 Share Posted May 21, 2000 If you are playing as the Germans vs a human playing the Americans, the Germans need 25% more, however, historically the Germans were very comfortable defending with these numbers. It seems they were always outnumbered and out supplied by those damn Amis. -Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarmo Posted May 21, 2000 Share Posted May 21, 2000 B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flix Posted May 21, 2000 Share Posted May 21, 2000 The balance of power for this scenario is equal. The Germans have many resources at their command early on in the game. For instance, the big 150mm is heck on the infantry as well as the two 81mm mortars. Oh yeah, don't forget the various bunkers. The Panther G is a big shot in the arm but comes a little late in the game. The four Shermans can easily take it out. In this scenario, the Germans CANNOT REMAIN IN A DEFENSIVE POSTURE!! The outcome of this scenario depends solely upon the Generals running it. Thanks, Flix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted May 21, 2000 Share Posted May 21, 2000 Hmmm...good question. Myself, I'd prefer to swap the 150 IG for an extra 75 bunker. Give those two bunkers interlocking fields of fire, and fix the targetting bug, and now you got game Or, how about this for a scenario...take one of the 88s from Reisburg, put it in a concrete bunker in VoT. Then take the 150 IG and put it in Reisburg. Man, i could think up a hundred of these. If only there was a way to design your own scenario, Hmmm... ------------------ "I do like to see the arms and legs fly" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cover Posted May 21, 2000 Share Posted May 21, 2000 PANTHER PANTHER PANTHER. I have let the AI beat the snot out of me as germs then wiped up the whole field with my shiny fresh panther.. ALL 6 TANKS..dead. All you have to do is hold out for that PANTHER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostOne Posted May 21, 2000 Share Posted May 21, 2000 Have played VOT on both sides numerous times and have never lost to the AI. Admittedly, as Germans was hanging on by a thread a couple of times in the ville until the Panther and infantry reinforcements were able to counterattack. If playing against the AI, I would say it's well balanced as is but against a savvy human player I would vote for 25% increase in German forces. Ghost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flix Posted May 21, 2000 Share Posted May 21, 2000 The Panther comes in turn 18. If you use it correctly, that Panther can take out all of the Shermans, including the 105's. Just keep the Panther's front armor towards the enemy. Flix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. Sosaboski Posted May 21, 2000 Share Posted May 21, 2000 Okay, so I played the Krauts for fun and ended up (right now) kicking the AI's butt. God bless that Panther! 5 tanks killed by hunting on the hill. The American arty is quite terrifying though and I'm getting worried by reports of a flamer and engineers moving toward my tank... I choose A. ------------------ Sosabowski, 1st Pol. Abn. Yes, I know my name is spelled wrong as a member! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All American Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 I would have to choose A. I've played the scenario three a times as the Germans with the forces balanced and each time kicked the AI's ass with more and more style. I then beat the AI as the Germans even after giving them a 100% advantage (though it was only a tactical victory). All American Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgdpzr Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 When played for the first time, I believe that the game is fairly well balanced. However, I believe that in a blind Head to Head with two equally skilled human players, the US should probably win at least 60% of the time. The disruptive power of the two batteries of 105's and the earlier reinforcement platoon of Shermans tip the balance in their favor. One thing I have discovered is that a defensive placement that works against the AI when it is the US can be easily shredded by a human opponent. I discovered this while playing both sides of a hotseat. The arty made the difference, and I did not target based upon unrealistic knowledge. While not causing great casualties itself, it can totally disrupt a concentrated, static defense. I would also second swapping the IG for another 75 pillbox. Then this would be a tough nut to crack. In terms of deploying the one anti-tank bunker you have to choose between basically giving up a flank or risk much easier neutralization of the bunker. With two bunkers, you wouldn't have to make that choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sabot Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 Last night i ran 2 back to back VoT games as the Germans. Each time i played the AI and my forces were at +50. The first time i recieved 2 150 IG guns, an extra Shreck team, and everything else remained the same. Each 150 lasted a total 30 seconds after they fired. Doesn't matter if you give them ambush markers to prevent them from firing, eventually they have to participate in the defense, and they die soon after that. Without the IGs, the 75 was all alone and overwhelmed. Result-crushing axis defeat. The second time was a carbon copy of the first with the exception that i got 2 75 bunkers instead of the extra IG. They ruled the Battlefield, popping both 105 Shermans early on. The AI used the 105 arty against Plomville and the 81s against my LH platoon, so the bunkers were undisturbed throughout the game. The Sherman reinforcements would constantly pop smoke to avoid both bunkers (which were in mutually supporting positions). One by one they got lit-up. In the end the Shrecks weren't even needed, and the Panther engaged infantry targets. My vote goes to for the extra 75 bunker. They are much more effective than the 150 IGs. P.S. Mike, if you read this, I hope i get the extra 75 in our re-match ------------------ "I do like to see the arms and legs fly" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest entec Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 B As you can tell from most of the above posts basing the balance of VOT on what the AI can do is not the right thing. I have yet to lose to the AI. While the AI in CM is better than most, it cannot play as well as a semi competent human opponent. CM AI will not beat most players unless it get lucky, I would add that it would need to be extremely lucky to beat a good player in balanced scenario. Right now it seems that you need to give the AI an advantage of at least 150% to give you a good game. It will continue to send units into harms way, and can eventually win by the sheer force of numbers and attrition. So much for pre-release expectations of a AI that gives a good fight on equal footing. Still a great game though! As for PBEM I think it would be best for each player to play both sides and compare the two games to determine the better player. But if its a single game that you are after I would say Germans +25%. [This message has been edited by entec (edited 05-22-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Pattison Posted May 22, 2000 Share Posted May 22, 2000 Depends. Against people, it's pretty balanced providing the German player puts his pillboxes and bunkers predominately out of LOS of the Amis setup. Generally, the game goes to the player that is able to achieve uncontested armor superiority(no opposing long range AT weapons) first just like ASL. If the computer attacks or defends, +25% to the computer controlled side. The only exception being if you allow the computer to play german side with free setup, then the computer should get +50%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Foobar Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 A. But, as has been said before, you lose the play balance after BLIND play is over. I just finished as Amis, with a minor Axis victory. (:mad I lost both Shermie 105's on turn 2, and later, in turn 18 lost the other 4 shermie's in 2 turns, as my smoke dissapated (:eek . I was darn lucky to fight my way back to a 39-52 loss...The unknown layout of the battlefield while attacking compensates for the German weaknesses, IMHO. Maybe it was my suckyness that balanced it out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwin Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 AHA Foobar can't make 's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen. Sosaboski Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 Ah, another Sherm on that hill brewed up my Panther and my infantry is basically in full retreat...the West Wall is lost-oh darn . Actually, I had fun driving the Panther intentionally over the daisy chain minefield in another game-heh heh, couldn't resist... . ------------------ Sosabowski, 1st Pol. Abn. Yes, I know my name is spelled wrong as a member! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest GriffinCheng Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 I choose A when against AI. Win 5 games in a row. 1 tactical 3 major and 1 Total -- all at normal odds. I think the AI does not use artillery effectively, shells rarely fall on bunkers but on troops exposed on open gournds. I am not sure if the game is balanced against human pbem player. I am trying that now. Griffin @ work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robert/1 Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 C. the Germans need all the help they can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwin Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 Germans have to pull something off to win vs humans. Once it's been played a few times seasoned players can be really dominant as Americans IMO. Will have to play with 25% and check it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cover Posted May 23, 2000 Share Posted May 23, 2000 Posted by: Ol' Blood & Guts Member posted 05-20-2000 06:45 PM ----------------------------------- Well, I just played VoT as the Germans with no advantage and again, the AI handed me my balls on a hub cap that even Tonya Harding wouldn't use. So definitely, the Germans need a bit of advantage in this one. Just too much damn Allied artillery!!! ------------------------------------ How could you lose? I have never lost to the computer!!!! It's EASY to win. Try again sport you will get it. I have won that scenario as germs with my panther and little else on the field. Chin up. You'll just need to remember...Mind over Machine and you will win. ------------------ _________________________ :RETURN EMAIL ADDRESS: cover_frc@yahoo.com -"Whats a few bullets between friends"- _________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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