137th Gebirg Posted August 9, 1999 Share Posted August 9, 1999 I know this would be far from your (BTS) minds right now, knowing how full a plate you all have, but I've always hoped to see some kind of Red-Dawn/Amerika-style scenario in a wargame. Granted, the cold war is over, but the concept is rich with the potential of guerilla warfare and modern tactics and equipment. Similar along the Viet Nam threads I've seen posted here, but with your existing models for European terrain (as opposed to the drudgery of building jungle models), which could be reused to simulate the various parts of America in which the conflict "occurred". The only TO&E you'd really need to worry about is on the Soviet side (which, I understand, is quite well documented). For the guerillas, anything and everything they can find. Just an idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted August 9, 1999 Share Posted August 9, 1999 Always loved the game "Fortress America" myself. It had some flaws, but nothing a few user rule changes didn't fix I think we can safely say that CM will not be translated into a Red Dawn setting. The plate is WAY too full and the engine is not really designed for modern warfare. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted August 11, 1999 Share Posted August 11, 1999 Sorry, but I find a Red-Dawn game a bit egotistic ... Perhaps some people still keep a gun under their pillow in case the Cubans invade and force everybody to smoke their cigars, but we've had hundreds if not thousands of conflicts since WWII isn't there enough material out there to do something more original ??? Every once in a while I bump into this kind of thing and I just can't keep myself from cringing at the idea that the USA could ever be invaded by a foreign power, a nation with the largest industral base and a huge reserve in manpower !!! Even if Spetznatz paratroopers landed in Poughkeepsie, wouldn't every "gun-owning patriot" rush out and blast them back to wherever they came from ??? I'm sorry, but I'd rather see a product that offered all the wars that really happened rather than some piece of S-F ... How about a game about Orson Welles' War of the Worlds ??? And sorry if I hurt anybody's feelings ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano6 Posted August 11, 1999 Share Posted August 11, 1999 "Red dawn"? Wasn't that a comedy? Oh wait, that was "The Russians Are Coming"..... Ooops my mistake Red Dawn was a comedy!!! dano6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted August 11, 1999 Share Posted August 11, 1999 The Russians are Coming is a FUNNY film! Just saw it last year. If you haven't seen it folks, go rent it! As far as Red Dawn type scenarios are concerned, there is no reality imaginable that would allow such a thing to happen. The game Fortress America, as abstract as it was, showed that. I never saw the attacker win (uhm, except when I played it ). Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
137th Gebirg Posted August 11, 1999 Author Share Posted August 11, 1999 Patrick, you need to relax a little, guy. The realism of a Red Dawn scenario was never meant to be an issue. Only the potential for guerilla warfare of a native population on an invading agressor in a hypothetical scenario. Who bloody cares if it happened or not? Even one of the former Soviet Union's generals (name eludes me - I'll try to find it later this week) stated that there was never a plan on the books for a full-scale conventional American invasion, due to what he called "your Second Ammendment" (a little shot in the arm for the anti-gunners out there - without the 2A, we'd all be speaking Russian, maybe?). All the Billy-bobs in the mountains with their daddy's shotgun. Fine, perhaps an Afghanistan-based game would fit a little more into that domain of historical realism to satisfy those lacking of imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 11, 1999 Share Posted August 11, 1999 Ah but who really wants to play Mohammed Al-Agha the plucky Afghanistan rebel leader all that much? I bet more people would enjoy being plucky Jim Smith the teenage rebel leader or some such . Sales dictate that more people are going to buy a game in which American kinds (and grown-ups) are gonna beat the Red Army in the streets of their home towns (I'm assuming here that one could create a replica of one's own town if one wanted.). Hell just for marketing reasons it makes sense plus it would add more fun I'm sure. I never bought it since I'd have gone for the more conventional Central Germany boardgames myself but I can see why people would play it as a bit of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malvoisin Posted August 11, 1999 Share Posted August 11, 1999 or even liam 'the leprechaun' o'shannesay, IRA bagman and defender of Gaelic. but anyhow, has anyone here played 'the price of freedom'? it was, if i recall, a red dawn type role playing game with a tactical combat part (complete with hex map and counters!). i don't think it did too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
137th Gebirg Posted August 11, 1999 Author Share Posted August 11, 1999 Malvoisin - There's actually an interesting story behind that. I'm friends with quite a few board-and-counter-based wargamers, and Price of Freedom actually did quite well. It was extremely popular, in fact, and was among the best-sellers at the local shops (didn't save West End Games from going Chapter 11, unfortunately). Rumor has it that because it was a game about the formation and organization of an insurrection within the United States against a "Communist-Occupied" Federal Government led to its eventual removal from shelves by West End with little or no explanation as to why. Even the internet has little-to-no info on this game, other than the fact that it merely existed at one time many years ago. With such a lack of information, obviously the conspiracy theories flew. It did sound like it touched a nerve somewhere...some of the wargames out there arguably do wonders at teaching their players advanced military tactics. I do like the Irish/Brit scenario though. Bein' a good Scotsman m'self, I'd love to see the Anglish get a good pasting on the screen by our Celtic brothers. Remember Culloden! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 11, 1999 Share Posted August 11, 1999 LOL. I hope you don't expect an Irishman like myself to comment on this possible game thread given the fact that its recently been proven by the BBC that ALL (and I repeat ALL) international calls and emails originating from Ireland were intercepted by a listening station in Wales which straddled the main information line which carried info from Ireland to a nexus in Britain from where it was transmitted worldwide. Sometimes being paranoid doesn't mean their not out to get you . Hi there MI6 . I deny everything . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted August 11, 1999 Share Posted August 11, 1999 By mentioning M.I.6, Fionn, I guess you made pretty damn' sure that this post is going to be automatically stored by the M.I.6, the NSA and several other agencies for the next 20 years. And my reply probably added a few other services and a few more years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Posted August 11, 1999 Share Posted August 11, 1999 I may have been a bit harsh, but I just can't imagine the Soviets crossing over ... Let's imagine they went through Alaska ... How long before the T80's are chewed up by M1's ??? (keeping it a ground battle ...) It's just that I never could imagine anyone invading the US !!! Not the Germans, not the Japanese, and certainly not the Soviets !!! Invading the US is a logistical nightmare !!! Hitler couldn't cross the channel, how could he get over the Atlantic ??? As for the commie US government ... LOL Why not try something on the recent struggles in former Soviet republics ??? I mean, the Tchetchen had more AK47's that an IRA member's wet dreams !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Posted August 12, 1999 Share Posted August 12, 1999 I never saw 'Red Dawn', but I do remember reading a book called 'Red Storm Rising', by Tom Clancy (I think). The main thrust of the novel was a desperate attempt by the Soviet Union to capture the world once and for all. I don't know how accurate it was, but it was definitely good reading, and had me pondering just how far off a 'Red Dawn' scenario was... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted August 12, 1999 Share Posted August 12, 1999 Patrick, the thing that scares me is that with North Korea testing (today I believe) a new missile that can just about reach the East Coast of the USA, I think it really isnt the threat of invasion thats the worry, its worse. Its these smaller countries, the ones whom arent as concerned about the after effects of such an action, that is really beginning to worry me in the overall scope of things. The India / Pakistan is another conflict Ive been keeping a close eye on lately. Im hoping that it will end very soon, before it goes too far. Rex, thats a Tom Clancey book, and a very good read I heard at one point they were thinking about making a movie from it, but I think it was loose way too much in the translation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Talley Posted August 12, 1999 Share Posted August 12, 1999 Actually those Canucks have got me a little concerned. They have been awfully belligerent lately. With their history of expansionism and their inability to handle liquor, I think we better keep a close eye on them..... Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted August 12, 1999 Share Posted August 12, 1999 Yeah, plus a lot of them drive around in pickup trucks that have rifle racks, and the guy running the whole show is from a backwoods part of the country. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Talley Posted August 12, 1999 Share Posted August 12, 1999 Doug, I am talking about Canada not the US...remember the inability to handle liquor part.... Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRourke Posted August 12, 1999 Share Posted August 12, 1999 I think theres alot of attraction to the red dawn type scenario for us yanks who grew up playing soldier in the age of the cold war. I don't think I'm the only one who imagined what it would be like if russian paratroopers landed on the school football field. My friend and I had it all planned out. Then again, we were a little bit weird. I looked at the "russian invades alaska" thing a couple years ago. This was back when that fanatic nationalist russian guy (zhironovsky?) was getting alot of attention. He did a tv interview in his office where you could see a big map of russia behind him. The catch was the map showed afghanistan, the ukraine, and yes, alaska as all part of russia. Funny guy that zhironovsky. Anyway, the conclusion I came to was that there was just no way in hell for a russian to win any sort of conflict up north, even assuming US attention was diverted to another theater. The totally lacked the necessary navy, airforce and logistics. As for the canadians, I have no fear. They're simple little metric minds just couldn't handle the complexity of taking over a country that uses the english system. Chris "My car gets 30 rods to the hogshead and thats the way I like it" -Grandpa Simpson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
137th Gebirg Posted August 12, 1999 Author Share Posted August 12, 1999 CRourke - Yeah! I remember that guy! Definitely a nut. I even remember some Russian exchange students at my old alma mater telling me that he was rattling his sword about going to war with America to take Alaska back for the oil! Haven't heard much about him in a while. I guess the people got smart over there (at least with regard to him). In any case, the Soviet "General" I mentioned in an earlier post was actually a Colonel in the GRU by the name of Victor Suvurov (sp?). He's written several books on this and many other Cold War subjects. Still think it would make for a great wargame simulation, though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malvoisin Posted August 12, 1999 Share Posted August 12, 1999 moon, you left out the words 'semtex', 'fissionable', 'marburg', and 'DPRK' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRourke Posted August 12, 1999 Share Posted August 12, 1999 At least no one has mentioned killing the president yet. whoops. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
137th Gebirg Posted August 12, 1999 Author Share Posted August 12, 1999 D'oh! If we weren't on somebody's list yet, we are now. [This message has been edited by 137th Gebirg (edited 08-12-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted August 12, 1999 Share Posted August 12, 1999 If Secret Service agents show up and confiscate our web server, all of you guys will be in the doghouse! Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zackary Posted August 12, 1999 Share Posted August 12, 1999 That Russian leader's name was Zukhanov, and I have bad news for you: He is still the head of the Communist Party in the Russian lower house, which I believe, currently holds the largest plurality in that body. He is a total crack-pot, reactionary, nationalist, commie, and he has designs on the Russian presidency. Egad! ["Everything old is new again."] If bell-bottoms and tie-dies can come back from the '60's and '70's, why can't the cold war? [Ok, ok, I know things have changed dramatically in Russia over the past fifteen years, but still . . . . Zukhanov is scary.] ------------------ Zackary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zackary Posted August 12, 1999 Share Posted August 12, 1999 Ok, ok, let me correct myself before I get thrashed. I just pulled this off the wire: "Flamboyant ultra-nationalist Vladimir Zhirinovsky, head of the Duma's third largest party . . . ." His is a nationalist, but not a Communist, third largest party not largest party, and his name is Zhirinovsky not Zukhanov. Man was I wrong! lol Anyway, he's still scary . . .. ------------------ Zackary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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