JeffRaider Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 It's my opinion, that, where morals are concerned, it is LESS MORAL to REALISTICALLY simulate the Second World War than it is to HYPOTHETICALLY simulate a similar conflict. [DISCLAIMER] Obviously, if I really thought it was immoral to simulate WW2, I wouldn't be here. I'm just making a point. Actually, I've never considered the morals of wargames, but now that I do, I see nothing wrong with them. [/DISCLAIMER] To me, modelling and enjoying events that ACTUALLY happened (where people died and suffered) is a damn sight worse than enjoying what amounts to be the equivalent of Science Fiction. Q: Did Americans and Germans kill each other and commit horrific atrocities? A: Yes. Q: Did Germans and Russians kill each other and commit horrific atrocities? A: Yes. Q: Did Americans and Russians kill each other and commit horrific atrocities? A: NO. IMHO, it is more moral to simulate hypothetical wars than it is to simulate real ones. [WARNING] Did something in this post piss you off? Before lighting up the flamethrower, please see the above disclaimer. [/WARNING] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jshandorf: All this hog wash about historical or ahistorical is really irritating me. Did you ahistorical fanatics know that there are scenarios that (gasp) NEVER happened? There not based off of history! In fact there is one scenario, okay brace for it, that pits the Hitler elite in his mountain fortress against an American assault. Gee, but that didn't happened in history, so HOW can BTS allow us to make a scenario to represent it?! Oh, the pain! Someone, please, pull the knife from my back! I feel so betrayed!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You don't say! I never knew. Thank you so much for enlightening me. Have a nice evening Jeff. ------------------ Andreas <a href="http://www.geocities.com/greg_mudry/sturm.html">Der Kessel</a > Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. [This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 12-11-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Terrence: Good post. I think that alone "justifies" the inclusion of the US vs USSR option. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks. I'm sure it would be a tricky thing to do, but considering the hostility and suspicion on both sides, it seems worth exploring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 Someone said; "I think most people here agree"... I demand a recount. Obviously there are opinion irregularities and many may have been confused by the issues opinionating for the wrong side. Obviously there is a wide margin in the underopinions that needs to be taken into account. LET EVERY OPINION COUNT! ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) [This message has been edited by Bruno Weiss (edited 12-11-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: You don't say! I never knew. Thank you so much for enlightening me. Have a nice evening Jeff. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Anytime. Just ask. And you likewise. jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 I really don't want to get into the middle of an argument but I personally would love to have the option of doing U.S. vs USSR 45 battles. I had fun with it in Steel Panthers, and I'd have fun with it in CM. The only problem I see with it is that you'd start seeing Summer 45 hypothetical scenarios with names like "The Pusan Perimeter" etc. I'll be buying it with, or without the what if Patton got his way stuff. My only other concern is that if it delays CM III, The Desert War, by more than a month, I don't want it. ------------------ Pair-O-Dice "Once a Diceman, Always a Diceman." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntg84 Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 Why not Ruskie vs Ruskie, American vs American, German vs German? That would be really cool, if they made it possible down the road. But I dont think that it would take to much time to make a German vs German simulator or an American vs Russian based on the little programing knowledge I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 Boy oh boy...looks like most of you die-hards don't have day jobs (or have very good bosses!) and are able to post all day long! Lots of heated argument, lots of good points made. However, I think we should have BTS itself have a say in this. We've given lots of good reasons for having this feature included, and some gave reasons against it, which (IMHO, remember) I personally dont agree with. Whichever the case, BTS' word will stand on this issue, no matter what we think. BTW: Germanboy - Aww, you spotted one of my spelling mistakes. Don't you feel like a big boy now! Good job, buddy! Here, have a cookie If it makes you feel any better, most of my posts will have the following Disclaimer: This post is not spell-checked due to the laziness and self-assuridance (purpusfully speled rong) of the author. ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 At least it's been a fairly civil discussion and nobody has mentioned that they'd like to see the Soviets or US vs the Hamsters....oops -john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 Geez, sounds like the 1980 Winter Olympics here. I once asked the same question about the ability to have WWII allies square off in Hypothetical battles. At the time I was told that Charles and Steve were much more concerned about getting the REAL elements of the war done before they worried about hypothetical conflicts. So in short, maybe but we will look into doing this but its a rather minor issue compared to other things we need to work on. Say goodbye to interesting thread now! Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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