buddy Posted October 11, 2000 Share Posted October 11, 2000 "Until CM has relative spotting, the best thing we can do to avoid this is to use recon vehicles in their historical role, ie, with other units providing an overwatch." It's just my opinion but I still think "gamey" is just a label some gamers put on the style of another player who is not playing realistic or historic - in other words I agree with you guys but think the conversation is, and was, a kaput one to begin with. Sorry to irk some, didn't get in on the first "gamey" thread and now I am exiting this one - no hard feelings to anyone!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannheim Tanker Posted October 11, 2000 Share Posted October 11, 2000 No hard feelings, Buddy. One thing that you seem to be misunderstanding: "Gamey" is not necessarily equivalent to "ahistorical". Something can be ahistorical and still be non-gamey. I highly doubt that people are given the "gamey" label for using ahistorical tactics. Come to think about it, I haven't "given" anyone a label of any type. Except Tom W ------------------ "Gun damaged are rare on Shermans because they die like red shirts on Star Trek" - Slapdragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted October 11, 2000 Share Posted October 11, 2000 Holdit, Let me see if I can explain bad manors, as I used it. I don't consider Gamey tactics like the jeep rush to be cheating. To me cheating is finding a way to disable or get around a process in the game. (like Pillars turning of FOW cheat he thinks he has found). Bad manors is using something that the game allows, but leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Like the jeep rush. Someone using this just because they have figured out that the speed of the jeep makes it almost impossible to hit, is bad manors. I hate to see it, and I would never do it because using tactics like that ruin the win. Now taking a jeep and using its speed to flank a halftrack and shoot up its back side is a good tactic. Although both can be considered suicide for the jeep I most cases. I for one see them diffrently. I have no problem with ahistorical tactics if they are valid and don't just take advantage of the game not being able to model everything. Also, I just might be crazy. But I honestly believe that 80% of the people that use a gamey tactic know it is gamey beforehand. Therefore to go ahead and use it is bad manors. lol, bet that didn't clear it up. I have a tendency to ramble. sorry lorak ------------------ "Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot; but make it hot by striking."--William Butler Yeats Cesspool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeydz Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 Here goes.... Is it cheating to use gamey tactics? Do you consider players who use tactics like the jeep rush to be cheaters? In general, no. To illustrate the difference for me between cheating, and using gamey tactics. Using "fast vehicle rush" to exploit the relative spotting model used in CM is using a gamey tactic. It's taking advantage of a limitation. It's playing within the "rules", if not the spirit, of the game system. Using Pillars "Turn off LOS" bug is cheating, because you are giving yourself an advantage by using a unknown flaw in the code. Is it cheating if a player decides not to abide by house rules? Strictly speaking, yes. If Player A agrees to play under a house rule that bans something, then violates that rule, then he is cheating. This is about the only way I would consider the use of a gamey tactic cheating. Do you always clarify the situation vis a vis house rules with your opponent before the game starts? Most of the time, I don't get to picky about house rules. Because of that, if someone does use what I would call a gamey tactic, then I'm not going to bug them, or gripe on the board, about it. I look at it sort of like politics and voting here in the USA. If I don't bother to go out and vote, then I have no right to bitch when the other party wins and does something I don't like. Do you see a player who prefers to allow the use of gamey tactics as an inferior kind of gamer? Not inferior. I think they are a different style of gamer. To each his own. The only gamer that I look down on is cheaters. Some people seem to be upset by the word "gamey". What other word would you use as an alternative that would not hold any negative connotations? It doesn't matter what the word is. The issue is this. If the "anti-gamey" players argue that "gamey" players are by definition cheaters, then I think those players have a right to feel slighted, no matter what you call it. Are house rules a good thing in themselves or a necessary evil? There is no good or evil inherent in a house rule. They are a tool for players to use to control the style of play that they are looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 How can you even call this "gamey?" The computer does many of these things. I especially hate the old, run around in a jeep drawing fire from Tigers, and when the turrent is nice and out of position, move the tank killers into position for some free shots, while the Tiger turns to meet the new threats, and then pop out of sight and start the jeep manuver again. Makes me so mad that when I do it, not only does the jeep die, but so do my tank killers Ok I dont do it, but I would if I had to. Remember, if it is available to all....it is not cheating. And if someone wants to stock up on HMG's, I will stock up on Panthers. 50 cal vs 75mm.......I will take that anyday. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 Sorry, I changed my mind. I strongly agree with Mikeydz's line of thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MantaRay: Remember, if it is available to all....it is not cheating. Ray<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No one's saying that "gameyness" is cheating. A gamey tactic is simply one which takes advantage of the game engine to produce results which would have been impossible in real life. Gameyness is certainly not cheating, that's why it's so freakin' hard to pin down. ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AR Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 My $02. You can do whatever you want as long as you have not agreed upon using "real tactics" (whatever that is ). If you decide to play by house rules you have to follow them. It's as simple as that. I'm currently being charged by a crew in a PBEM and that's fine with me, because we did not say anything before the game. I will be happy to kill them. ------------------ It gets better each time as long as it's never with the same woman. Al Bundy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 Lorak wrote: Bad manors is using something that the game allows, but leaves a bad taste in your mouth. I thought that bad manors were always on a far-away clifftop in the middle of a great thunderstorm. And maintained by a hunchbacked servant called Igor. I just had to write that. - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Warphead- Posted October 12, 2000 Share Posted October 12, 2000 tss *lol* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts