Hamstersss Posted October 6, 2000 Share Posted October 6, 2000 Knowing that TCP/IP play will include a timer, I was wondering if BTS plans on provisions for when the timer runs out and troops have no orders. While I think it's fitting that troops don't do anything, I don't quite think it's realistic. Rather if a unit doesn't get orders, there should be a condition where the AI can take over, so that if you don't tell a platoon to move, it may move as it sees fit, based on the situation around it. This way you can set up a portion of the battlefield and, if your troops handle the troops, you can let them run relatively free, while you concentrate on the sticky situation with your limited time. ------------------ Did someone compare this to the Ealing comedies? I've shot people for less. -David Edelstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks: Knowing that TCP/IP play will include a timer, I was wondering if BTS plans on provisions for when the timer runs out and troops have no orders. While I think it's fitting that troops don't do anything, I don't quite think it's realistic. Rather if a unit doesn't get orders, there should be a condition where the AI can take over, so that if you don't tell a platoon to move, it may move as it sees fit, based on the situation around it. This way you can set up a portion of the battlefield and, if your troops handle the troops, you can let them run relatively free, while you concentrate on the sticky situation with your limited time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> How would this effect a situation where you wanted troops to stay put? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted October 7, 2000 Author Share Posted October 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CavScout: How would this effect a situation where you wanted troops to stay put? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I would assume that, in such a situation, your troops would stay put. The only time I would think the AI would take over is if your lack of orders left forces in an untenable position or out of sorts. The thought, I admit, is nascent, so I'm sure there are inconsistencies, but where there are time limits, there are players running out of time, which works in a game sense but I think it would cause problems in a realism sense. ------------------ Did someone compare this to the Ealing comedies? I've shot people for less. -David Edelstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavScout Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks: I would assume that, in such a situation, your troops would stay put. The only time I would think the AI would take over is if your lack of orders left forces in an untenable position or out of sorts. The thought, I admit, is nascent, so I'm sure there are inconsistencies, but where there are time limits, there are players running out of time, which works in a game sense but I think it would cause problems in a realism sense. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If there was a hold command perhaps it would be more viable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwin Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 So what your saying is you want the tac AI to not be changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamstersss Posted October 7, 2000 Author Share Posted October 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Darwin: So what your saying is you want the tac AI to not be changed?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Correct, rather add an outside component that uses the strategic AI we all know and love from the single player game. And yes, Cavscout, a hold command would make this much easier and would act much like the hide command in that you would order a fast move and a hold and your marker would say "Move and hold." Otherwise, they would be free to adjust their position as the AI sees fit. ------------------ Did someone compare this to the Ealing comedies? I've shot people for less. -David Edelstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 The flaws in Meeks idea. 1) If the AI were to move someone units in a way they didn't want then people would be screaming that they didn't want it and why has it even been put into the game. "I wanted them to advance but not there!!! The AI sucks."...You get the idea. 2) If you are going to give a unit a "hold" order then that would mean you had time to give them any order and if you gave them none it would be assumed that they would hold. 3) The way the game is designed now the TacAI is "turned off" when a human is in command. I would assume that a great deal of programing would have to be written for what in effect would be "partial TacAI". I would also suspect that it would be much more programing than it would be worth. My understanding of the value of a timer is that they player on the other end of the line would not have to wait for an unreasonable amount of time for the game to continue not so that players would be rushed through their turns. For larger games I would assume that the timer would be set for longer periods of time than smaller games. I also hope that a timer is set for say ten minutes but both players are done after seven that the game would continue without waiting for the extra three minutes to expire. I guess I'm just trying to say that it sounds like more work than it would be worth for something that people may end up complaining about anyway. ------------------ "To conquer death you only have to die" JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 I think it is a big mistake to have a timer in the first place. CM is a gentlemens game as is chess. Chess is almost ruined by a clock because it totally destroys what is the whole premiseof the game...thinking. When I was in the gulf, I used to play a friend of mine who was in Hawaii. We had to do our moves via mail which took a bit to get back and forth. It was something I totally looked forward to in the months I was there. I will be damned if I will consent to play CM this way. I like huge battles in the first place so that would totally ruin my experience. Just my $.02 Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Sedai Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks: Knowing that TCP/IP play will include a timer, I was wondering if BTS plans on provisions for when the timer runs out and troops have no orders. While I think it's fitting that troops don't do anything, I don't quite think it's realistic. Rather if a unit doesn't get orders, there should be a condition where the AI can take over, so that if you don't tell a platoon to move, it may move as it sees fit, based on the situation around it. This way you can set up a portion of the battlefield and, if your troops handle the troops, you can let them run relatively free, while you concentrate on the sticky situation with your limited time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It appears that whoever can click faster will have an advantage. Doesn't that detract from what what Steve and Charles wanted in CM to begin with? Since I dim-witted, it takes me longer to make stupid mistakes, so I prefer PBEM. If there will be a timer, I agree that a "Hold" command will be a viable alternative to missing out on giving orders because you aren't fast enough. I would change the hold to a "Guard" command. This would basically be stay put and shoot at what comes into your LOS (reasonable) Just my rantings. ------------------ "If you want battle, come to me!" - Lieutenant Worf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 Since I began beta testing the TCP/IP patch back in June I have never had a situation where the timer ran out time before I had given orders to all my units. The trick is to make sure that you set the timer so that there is plenty of time for whatever size game you are playing.There is also an option to disable the timer so that it isn't an issue. Disabling the time would be the best solution to all the issues that have been brought. It is a much better solution than rewriting the programing to add "hold" order or have the AI take over units that were not issued orders. ------------------ "To conquer death you only have to die" JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted October 7, 2000 Share Posted October 7, 2000 Just kidding....I'm not beta testing anything. But I would assume the things I described are true. ------------------ "To conquer death you only have to die" JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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