Lt Bull Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Hi, Been playing in the Matrix CMBN tourney. One scenario is Barkmann's Corner...I initially played it SP to get a feel for it, and tried a few things out as far as firing positions through hedgerows go...even then I noticed some odd things....like Barkmann's Panther tank spotting tank targets when pressed up against the hedgerow but the main gun doesn't seem to be able to see/aim/fire at the enemy tanks, however the hull MG can....I thought it was something random....anyway I started playing the tourney game, and have encountered exactly the same thing. Barkmann can spot tank targets through a hedgerow, the hull MGer can fire (sometimes) but the main gun can not target/fire. I was able to recreate the situation in a SP game and experimented a bit and it is even worse! Even when the enemy tank moves to be perpendicular to the hedgerow Barkmann still cant fire, yet the enemy Sherman can (if it spots). Barkmann only seems to be able to get a grey target line to the enemy tank only 150m away. Image here of view from Barkmann's firing position. Link to saved file ....just press the GO button and watch replay (try giving the Shermans SLOW orders to move across Barkmann'n FOV...Barkmann wont target/wont fire. I should probably have killed 2 Shermans in my tourney battle when I moved Barkman to that flanking firing position...instead Barkman just sat there, only the hull MGer firing...letting one of the Sherman 76s get off two rounds without fear of retribution. Barkmann survived the turn and I am here really just to see if I should just give up expecting him to be able to fire at anything through the hedgerow in that position. Regardless, my whole plan for this tourney battle has been totally trashed by this situation. Regards Bull 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Lt Bull said: my whole plan for this tourney battle has been totally trashed by this situation That's a bummer! It may however be karma payback for this: 2 hours ago, Lt Bull said: I initially played it SP to get a feel for it, and tried a few things out as far as firing positions through hedgerows go Joking of course . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Hi it seems likely that the main gun crew member can not see the target and he is the one that fires. It is a pain when it happens (trees and branches usually) and a feature of the engine that every crew member is modelled and sights. So if the main gunner can't see then no bang bangs... I have had two Shermans drive too fast for my gunner to let loose through a gap I was covering... Such is life.... I seem to remember a long while back we had a crew member sat facing the rear in one tank and it took a while to sort that one out. Lots of moving parts in the game... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Bull Posted November 1, 2023 Author Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, Holien said: Such is life.... More like "such is CM" Not sure if you actually played around with the save file...but I definitely know something is not right here. Something wrong will be discovered. I went in to the Scenario Editor and deleted all features that could be complicating things ie. made all terrain standard grass, deleted some hedgerows, the fence...as plain as possible. I have left the elevation as it is for now. I then placed four unbuttoned Panthers up against the offending hedgerow. All four Panthers can not trace a blue targeting line even directly perpendicular out through the hedgerow for some reason. They can only trace a grey targeting line. I experimented with the location of the Sherman and even made it move back and forth in front of the Panthers at a range of just 50m and the Panthers still can not target the Sherman. Save file here to see for yourself! I am not ruling out that something is peculiar about the Panther tank for some reason: Possibly the crew not properly seeing out of the tank when adjacent to the hedgerow? My next step is to replace the Panthers with other tanks and see what happens (I had earlier did a hasty check by placing a Sherman where the Panthers are and it seemed to have had no issue spotting/firing through the hedgerow where the Panthers are, though I will confirm). I will also totally "flatten' the terrain to be all the same elevation. Even though there is some minimal variation as seen in this screenshot of elevations, it may be affecting the LOS/LOF mechanics in some odd unexpected way. Edited November 1, 2023 by Lt Bull 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Bull Posted November 1, 2023 Author Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) Upon further testing, after even flattening the terrain to the same elevation, it still seems that same SECTION of bocage is STILL preventing the Panthers from getting a blue targeting line through to the other side. This whole situation is getting more bizarre however. I incrementally repositioned the Panthers along the offending length of hedgerow to see if the entire length of hedgerow affects the LOS the same way. IT DOESNT! There apparently is a 70-75m length of that hedgerow that only allows grey targeting line through it. The the left of it, the LOS seems as you would expect. However to the right of it the blue targeting line DOES project through the hedgerow but ONLY at angle left of straight ahead! Something seems to be affecting the LOS/LOF through a particular segments of bocage on that map for some reason. WTF is going on here? Something very ODD seems to be f-ing with the LOS mechanics. Who knows how and where else this issue may have also manifested itself in the countless number of CM maps out there that feature bocage like this. Check out the save file here! Scenario file here! Pick each tank and you will see the LOS through the bocage as per the diagram above. reposition them to verify what is observed. BFC, please explain... Edited November 1, 2023 by Lt Bull 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 Just an idea. Maybe legacy info remains in the btt file that impacts LOS? I dunno. Try this if you want in your test scenario... in 2D map editor delete all the bocage hedgerows in that red line region. save and exit Reopen it and then lay the bocage sections back down again. save and then test as new play scenario? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 9 hours ago, Lt Bull said: BFC, please explain... Good luck with that my friend . Even if you or I tagged in Elvis (or Steve) I would not expect an explanation to be forthcoming. And I mean that as no criticism to anyone concerned. As for the Barkmann situation, I played the 'revisited' version and saw no such problems. I did have other problems and in the end only popping smoke and support from infantry with panzerfausts saved Barkmann for another day. It was a German victory but I don't recall what flavour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 On 11/1/2023 at 9:14 AM, Lt Bull said: BFC, please explain... I hope they do. Your testing shows something is different with that section of bocage and my hat off to you for actually backing up your comments with actual research. If they need more Beta Testers I suggest you sign up... I just watched another video of my game with Barkmann and I have seen several times the cycle of firing (don't actually fire) aim and Firing (don't actually fire) issue which is another bug bear. There is nothing else on the market that beats it, but the frustration when you see these niggles are deeply annoying... The joys of CM. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted November 2, 2023 Share Posted November 2, 2023 Well add to the list that infantry by side of hedge didn't see a sherman pass by in the open 20 meters away... Or a Shreck team set back from the bocage where a Sherman drove up the other side and saw the team 1st and blew it away... Or a Squad of German infantry had a Sherman drive 10 meters away and decide that grenades would be pointless and then they got spotted and blown away by the same Sherman that then rocked up to the bocage. It stayed at bocage a few seconds blasting at my squad before it noticed the shreck team the other side of the bocage, all the while the shreck team was smoking dope... Such is CM and I had forgotten all the $hit happens stuff after 10 years it is all flooding back... The joys of CM 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.