Bailing out crews from scout vehicles

[Daniel Prates]

This is more likely a ww2-titles question as with the newer ones, this may not really apply because of improved optics etc. 

The question is: do any of you exit the crew of a scout or recon vehicle, say a puma for instance, to have the crew scan the horizon with their own infantry spotting modifiers? 

See, normally they have binoculars. A standing infantryman using a binoculars is just about the best spotting unit in ww2 titles (isn't it?). And being inside vehicles has the known attribute of poor spotting. Then it occured to me, why not dismount them and have them hug the grass near the vehicle and scout for other units? 

I am not really thinking about whether this is a good tactic or not (a good discussion though!) but rather whether I will actually be improving my spotting overall or not, mechanics-wise. Just to provide some context, I am playing this RT scenario where six pumas scout a Russian position. I separated in two teams of 3 cars each and, in some chokepoints, I did dismount the crew of one of them and kept the other two cars ready to advance to contact if I spotted enemy vehicles, the dismounted crewmen than re-boarding their car and joining in the fight; feels like a good idea, tho I am pretty sure this was unlikelly done in RL. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Daniel Prates

[chuckdyke]

1 hour ago, Daniel Prates said:

This is more likely a ww2-titles

I think unbuttoned gives you the same spotting as an infantry unit. But being in a vehicle makes you a prime target. It makes sense to park the vehicle under cover of a terrain feature before you bail out to scout on foot. In CW Linking Up and Breaking Out. The crew keep their binoculars. That is with the American Scout Car.

[Brille]

I do this from time to time actually. 

Especially when:

- I lack infantry to do the scouting 

- the tanks/vehicles can not communicate with the infantry either verbally (not in range) or via Radio (not in the same formation) 

In one game I bailed out the company commander of a panzer IV company and put him on a hill, while the other tanks positioned behind it. 

After he gathered all the needed info (T34 lying in ambush) he got back in his tank to share it with the rest of the company. 

Cannot say that the attack worked smoothly but it certainly helped to know enemy locations.

If you have the time and space to do it I don't see a reason not to do it.

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Brille

[wolfgang500]

I think this is basically a question about the terrain. If spotting is possible over long distances. the optics and the mere height of my vehicle gives me advantage (now and then). In more hilly, wooded or built up areas it is better to walkd forward and spot by crew. And (in reality at least) never trust the reports of infantry!

[Bulletpoint]

9 hours ago, Daniel Prates said:

I separated in two teams of 3 cars each and, in some chokepoints, I did dismount the crew of one of them and kept the other two cars ready to advance to contact if I spotted enemy vehicles, the dismounted crewmen than re-boarding their car and joining in the fight; feels like a good idea, tho I am pretty sure this was unlikelly done in RL. 

I think dismounting to scout was done in the real war - even by the likes of tank ace Otto Carius.

In the game, it can be done, but rarely gives any real advantage. The advantage is not really that it makes you spot better, rather that it prevents you from getting spotted instantly yourself while moving your vehicle into position.

But in nearly all situations, in game, it's better to use another infantry unit to spot, and then transfer their info to the vehicle.

[Daniel Prates]

Hmm.... if 'unbuttoned binoculars spotting' and 'dismounted binoculars spotting' are the same,  then it all boils down to the option of leaving the car back and advancing on foot to better cover/concealment then.

Still.... one can think of some advantages to better spotting overall. Still on the Puma: from inside the vehicle, unbuttoning gives you only two foward-facing pixeltruppen, one with binoculars. Dismounting tho allows you to have all four guys facing foward (with the target arch order, which iirc, concentrates spotting to that arch's direction), besides the concealment discretion advantages. More eyeballs, as the YT videos always say.

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Daniel Prates

[Brille]

58 minutes ago, Daniel Prates said:

Hmm.... if 'unbuttoned binoculars spotting' and 'dismounted binoculars spotting' are the same,  then it all boils down to the option of leaving the car back and advancing on foot to better cover/concealment then.

Still.... one can think of some advantages to better spotting overall. Still on the Puma: from inside the vehicle, unbuttoning gives you only two foward-facing pixeltruppen, one with binoculars. Dismounting tho allows you to have all four guys facing foward (with the target arch order, which iirc, concentrates spotting to that arch's direction), besides the concealment discretion advantages. More eyeballs, as the YT videos always say.

 

Well the advantage to stay in the vehicle are... protection (duh) and the height of it in terms of spotting. 

The commander can view things from a different position and angle and can see behind hedges and walls to a degree. 

Going on foot is obviously the opposite of all of it. Yeah you have more men to watch and a better situational awareness overall. But they observe mostly from a kneeling or prone position which makes it harder to spot. 

So both have disadvantages and advantages. 

But don't be mistaken: It doesn't matter much if the unit spotted the target themselves or if they get the information transfered to by another formation/unit. 

The possibility to spot/respot the target because of the previously received information stays the same. 

So while this is an option indeed I would use it only when I have no other options left like mentioned before. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by Brille

[Daniel Prates]

1 hour ago, Brille said:

Well the advantage to stay in the vehicle are... protection (duh) and the height of it in terms of spotting. 

The commander can view things from a different position and angle and can see behind hedges and walls to a degree. 

Going on foot is obviously the opposite of all of it. Yeah you have more men to watch and a better situational awareness overall. But they observe mostly from a kneeling or prone position which makes it harder to spot. 

So both have disadvantages and advantages. 

But don't be mistaken: It doesn't matter much if the unit spotted the target themselves or if they get the information transfered to by another formation/unit. 

The possibility to spot/respot the target because of the previously received information stays the same. 

So while this is an option indeed I would use it only when I have no other options left like mentioned before. 

Yeah it does feel like a desperate measure, or someting only useful during unusual situations such as those few scenarios where there are no combined arms at all and you just get a bunch of recon vehicles. 

[PEB14]

23 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

I think dismounting to scout was done in the real war - even by the likes of tank ace Otto Carius.

Based on AAR from the French 2nd Armored Division in 1944, dismounting was very usual for the tank commanders ONLY, for scouting purposes.

In RL it really makes no sense to dismount the whole crew of an AFV just for scouting.

[domfluff]

This is doctrinal in some contexts. CVR(T) vehicles would dismount to scout. I believe in reality the driver stays, but regardless, the vehicle isn't fighting.