Guest Big Time Software Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Just a heads up for you guys... A couple of weeks ago Charles took some time to do up better smoke graphics. As we have stated for a long time, we wanted to see them done better but weren't in any rush because: 1. Time is limited and the existing smoke was functional and decent enough. 2. Transparancies are highly unstable due to the poor quality of DirectX video drivers. This means a lot of extra work for us to get things displaying as they SHOULD be. 3. Transparancies (the right way to redo the smoke) are framerate hogs. Just one plume of smoke isn't a big deal, and a few aren't either, but a big battle can have DOZENS of plumes. We decided that taking a couple of days to make improvements to the smoke was worth it. What we then had to do was make sure that #2 and #3 didn't become a huge problem. Now the bad news... As we feared, the driver bug problem is pretty bad. We don't yet know if we can hack around the sloppy work of others for every card out there, but we are going to try a few things to get at least the major cards to support the new smoke. The second fear realized is the hit to the framerate. In a battle I just played the framerate droped by 50% towards the end with all sorts of smoke. And I am using a 400MHz G4, not some pokey lowend machine. So the speed hit is VERY real and can be quite noticable even with a higher end system. Because we can't promise that the new smoke will work on every card (in fact it doesn't right now), or every system due to the speed hit, we have included an option to go with something more or less like what is in the demo. Best we can do for now You will be seeing screenshots of the new smoke very shortly. I've given MadMatt the green light and I know there are a couple coming up in the Games Domain preview due out this week. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Thanks for the update, Steve. Not only because I'd like some translucent smoke, but also because this can be interpreted as you being fairly far down the priorities list in the polishing phase ------------------ -Bullethead jtweller@delphi.com WW2 AFV Photos: people.delphi.com/jtweller/tanks/tanks.htm [This message has been edited by Bullethead (edited 02-20-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Well I guess I know what I will be doing the rest of tonight! Madmatt... p.s. funny how people never seem to think that I have a personal life! ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Manieri Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 I'd just like to say, Thanks Steve. I was getting hungry for another update. And, like Bullethead said, it reassures me that the game is closer to completion because the smoke fix-up was lower down the totem pole. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonS Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Whheeee!! Thanks Steve and Charles. Now I definately have a good reason to get a new machine Regards Jon ------------------ Ubique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heibis Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 I bow in huble respect before the mighty CM God. You guys at BTS, count me in as one of your diciples. Jens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eichmann2 Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Pip!Pip! HUSSARRRRR!!!!!! 'Live long and prosper!' * *(quote used with kind permission of Paramount Studios) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TOBRUK Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Hi BTS, I'm getting used to holding the minority opinion, so it's no surprise that I thought the smoke was ok, and degradation of play for a minor improvement is not a desirable outcome. This is not a criticism, just a thought; I applaud all your efforts. I just want to say that I think the demo is absolutely great. And I hope that public clamor won't lead to perhaps undersirable changes; for example I hope we won't see blood, screaming, bodies laying around or writhing in pain, etc. Some people who 'demand' realism don't really know what realism is. Geez, I guess I must not be in a good mood tonight. I'll try to cheer up. You guys relly do good work, BTS Maybe I'd feel better if JonS would send me a move? Hmmm, then again, maybe not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Scurlock Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 If we can see the "screenshots" OK, does that mean our card will accept the new smoke grafics? I personally felt the old smoke was very servicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott C Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 In a word, no. Any system should be able to view screenshots of the new smoke, since they would just be JPEGs or GIFs. _Making_ the smoke will all be done by the computer taking the screenshot. ------------------ Questions, comments, arguments, refutations, criticisms, and/or sea stories? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 And that would my system taking the screenshots but unfortunetly my TNT2 with the Nvidea reference drivers does not show the smoke quite as BTS would like. Its not bad, just thicker..You'll see in about 5 minutes though as the update is just about down... Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 02-20-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonS Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Enough already, TOBRUK! You'll have your move in about 7-8 hrs JonS (Having to work, not play ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamse Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Well, what was wrong with the old one ? I think that was...........unnecessary. Hope it atleast increase sales ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Foobar Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 I have seen some altered smoke from CoolCol, on his website I think, and it was simply a texture change. If the frame-rate hit is too severe, I think I will just use his texture sets on the simplified option that you mentioned.... I have started to believe that my upgraded machine is unfallible; Ive never had a game tax it too much, (not even halflife at hi-res) So I say bring it on BTS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAEZ Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Ok the new smoke graphics are great but, I'm one of those low speed end users and anything that is going to slow the framerate in this game worries me, Don't get me wrong I'm for all new improvements but not at this time. I order the game based on demo and it works great on my machine well sore of.I'm also buying a new 3d card but I can not afford a new system just yet"baby on the way .I hope that there is an option to play the game without any hungryframerate stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Personally speaking I prefer to play without transparencies.. Well, to be correct I like the transparent buildings but prefer the non-transparent smoke. Matt, any chance of putting up some picture of smoke from a knocked out tank etc to show the non-transparent smoke? It's not a CPU hog and its a vast improvement over the beta demo.. I play with it cause I like the thick oily black look to it . Also, I'm kind of a grognardy wargamer so I always felt the graphics in CM were good enough to release a few months ago . Lucky for you guys you have Steve and Charles making CM and not me cause I must admit that all the recent graphical tweaks etc DO make it look better and do aid immersion (the important thing IMO). One thing which should also be borne in mind while commenting on this is that what Steve and Charles are doing is adding in options for those with high end systems. They are NOT making these mandatory.. If you don't have a P300 or 400 or whatever you don't HAVE to use the translucent smoke (or if you're like me and just prefer the thicker oilier feeling of the non-transparent smoke then you don't need to use it easier). matt, I think we should post some pics of non-transparent smoke just to show them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Dang - I've just done my 4th revision of my smoke But, wow this new smoke gets my 2 thumbs up approval!! I've just put another pic up, replacing yesterday's pic of my Tweaked Textures v2.0 smoke (4th version). Rough, and not finished...so should I just not bother finishing it? WHat's the verdict? 2D textures just can't compete with beautiful smoke Fx like these The old system doesn't work too well with smoke screens Is BTS using 2 textures now for the old method? ie one black one or burning stuff, and a white one for smoke screens? ------------------ CCJ aka BLITZ_Force My Hompage ----> http://www.geocities.com/coolcolj Double your immersion with my Tweaked Textures and Saving Private Ryan sound set mods for CM!! Check out my new Textures V2.0 photo Gallery and my music while your there! [This message has been edited by CoolColJ (edited 02-20-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Yeah sure, let me pull those outa my ass for ya Fionn! Gezz people, I have A LIFE you know!!! I don't know maybe it's just me but I have been feeling kinda edgy this weekend... Madmatt p.s. New non-translucent smoke graphics will be ready in a few minutes... ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Manieri Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 They're almost done with the game.....I can feel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 These look good - I'm gonna go and redo mine ccj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icee93 Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 My GOD what was wrong with the smoke in the first place????? It looks great to me, the beta. Please tell me that BTS did not waste 2 weeks re-tweaking the bloddy smoke!! Can't all this tweaking just take place in an add on or the Eastern Front (CM2)? I havn't had one individual (I have shown it to 12 people) who hasn't had to sit down when viewing CM. They can't believe their eyes. Sorry but I truely believe that BTS is trying to make this game perfect when it already is. I have pre-ordered 2 copies and would like to see (the beta if need be + scenario editor) the product RELEASED not some super duper polished fancy game with another 3 months of TWEAKING. I have several friends who monitor the board and contribute that all believe that the product is being tweaked way to much. Please BTS release your product before others become frustrated and spend their hard earned money elsewhere. Like wasting money on Rising Sun. I sure BTS deserves its money NOW, so release CM and charge away!! Thanks sry english isn't my first language so i'm sure there are lots of spelling mistakes sorry fionn will have to work on my oxford english Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Icee93 I disagree, polish is what separates a good game from a great. I feel BTS want's to make the chasm so deep that other game companies, find it daunting to follow Pride also comes into it too - its your work, why not put out the best you can do? This is how I feel with my Tweaked Textures V2.0 too. You don't how it is, till you've done it yourself CCj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Icee93, I felt your English was good and as I'm at PAINS to point out we must ALWAYS give consideration to non-English speakers. I'm not a native English speaker myself (didn't speak a word until I was 8 and moved to an English-speaking country) so I'm sensitive to this issue. Anyways: 1. I'm quite sure it didn't delay the game 2 weeks . Charles codes damned fast from what I can tell. I sure can't understand how he can code so much so quickly but he does somehow... 2. While you say NOW you want the game now.. It is simply human nature that if you DID get it now you (and everyone else) would bitch about all the things which AREN'T polished . 3. Magazine reviewers will DEFINITELY bitch about areas which aren't polished. Reviews will form a large part of CM's "getting into public view" so it is important. 4. Steve and Charles REALLY are committed to putting out a first rate ( A+) game. You only realise that fully when you hear all the things they work on and minutiae they deal with. In the end it means a better game for you. Frustrating short-term wait BUT a better game for all the years it lives on your HD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 Just to add to what CoolColJ has said, No where did anyone say that BTS spent the past two weeks tweaking the smoke. Truth is it's been done for some time, we are just showing it to you NOW. Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted February 21, 2000 Share Posted February 21, 2000 I have to say that I really like the smoke. I probably couldn't go back to using the old kind. Covering Smoke looks great, same with the smoke as a result of fire. I always felt that there should be a difference between the two. I really like it how they are all at different heights, it furthers the realism. JPEG's and GIF's don't do the game credit. What you see at CMHQ is not a total replica of what you would see in the game, frankly, the smoke in the game will look much better than it already appears. Wether or not the game will be released soon, who is to say? Possibly this was the first of multiple tweaks that BTS is working on. Maybe it is the last. I wouldn't actually worry if the game isn't released until the Spring, thereby giving us an extremely high quality game. I don't think that there is a single Wargame in Computer history so dedicated to detail and realism as CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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