Partial Cover for vehicles?

[pritzl]

I know that combat mission models being hull down for armored vehicles, but I'm wondering to what extent is it modeled. In other words, is being "hull down" an all or nothing modifier or does it actually account for how much of the vehicle can be seen.

For example, lets say I have two tanks that are slowly cresting a hill with an order to hunt. As they come up the reverse slope, they both spot enemy armor and halt their vehicles in hull down positions. However, 1 vehicle was a little late in spotting the enemy and is less hull down than the other. So my question is, does CM model them both as statistically equal in difficulty to hit or is it modeled on how much of the vehicle can actually be seen by the enemy and therefore one is a slightly better target than the other.

Also, do vehicles get partial protection from buildings and such. i.e. if only the foward half of a tank is sticking out from the corner of a building is that the only portion that can be hit or is it a case where if any part of the vehicle is visible, the entire vehicle is considered a legitimate target?

Thanks,

pritzl

[Jeff]

I have a similar question. Do you, the player, decide if the tank is hull down ? I mean if the tank move uphill and stops, does the TC puts his vehicle in a hull down position or the AFV moves until the point I ordered him to move to ?

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Veni, vidi, vici

Julius Caesar

[Lanzfeld]

I'm not 100% sure on this but I think, as far as the first question goes, that because of CM's 3D nature, you can be different degrees of Hull Down. That is to say...your tanks is exposed as much as it is from the view of the enemy. If a slope is blocking 5/6 of your hull then you are 5/6 hull down. If it is blocking 1/3 your hull then you are 1/3 hull down. This is the beauty of 3D. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

[Guest Ol' Blood & Guts]

Lanzfeld is right. Because of CM's 3D nature, the "hull-down" effect is exactly "what-you-see...is-what-you-get". However much of your vehicle is in view of an enemy vehicle IS what is in view. There is no *generic* "hull-down" position.

Hope this answers your question.

Actually, what I thought was your question is whether or not if CM models stuff like camoflage webbing or natural foliage effects.

It would be cool if it did, but CM's foliage modeling is just in the following categories:

<LI> Scattered Trees

<LI> Woods

<LI> Heavy Woods

The Heavy Woods have actually less under growth, IIRC, from what Steve said a while back, because the Heavy Woods are considered a high canopy of trees that block out the sunlight to the ground.

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"I am not interested in the names of your fathers...nor of your family's lineage. What I am interested in...is your breaking point!"--Gen. Chang

[Doug Beman]

I thought that hulldown is all/nothing. Also, vehicles will not stop themselves when they are hulldown UNLESS they are in the middle of a HUNT order, see an enemy, and stop in the right way to be hulldown to that enemy. If you give them a MOVE/FAST order to the top of a hill, and an enemy becomes visible during the movement, the vehicle will keep trying to get to the top of the hill. It will only stop/reverse/otherwise break orders once the enemy vehicle has presented a great enough threat to activate the TacAI's self-preservation instincts.

DjB

[Guest Big Time Software]

Hull Down is "all or nothing" relevant to the positions of the friendly and enemy unit in relation to terrain. This means that a tank higher up will be able to get a full shot at an enemy tank that has hull down to something at a lower elevation. But how many mm of tank are hull down and how much are exposed is not tracked. Gotta keep those Pentiums from melting their cases trying to do the math for that

Steve

[Lanzfeld]

Ahhhh......so I was wrong.

[Guest Ol' Blood & Guts]

So was I, I guess...

[Lanzfeld]

It doesnt make sense though....... If a chunk of earth (hill) is between the lower part of my hull and an enemy shell then that shell should hit the earth and not my hull. In the 3D environment, the more of my hull thats blocked by the earth, the more of my hull thats protected. The way Im talking about it...it cant be "all or nothing".......can it???

[Ben Galanti]

My understanding from a thread a while back is that there is one point which represents the turret, adn on that represents the hull. If both points are below the crest of the hill, you can't see the tank. If one is, it's hull down, if neither is, it's just out in the open. So currrently, a tank is either not visible, hull down, or completely visible only no varying degrees of visibility. This was done purely becuase it would take way too long to compute anything more precise currently... I'm sure it's something they'll look at fixing for CM 4 when there are a lot more extra processor cycles to go around

[Ron Meier]

I am interested if BTS might discuss the algorythm they are using to determine a "hit" if the hull down is an all or nothing affair.

Are you modeling the shot from the gun (introducing some errors in the "aim")and tracking its trajectory and calculating the impact of the round, or is the a "an elite gunner has an X% to hit a fully exposed target; add/subtract factors for hull-down, morale, target profile.

It doesn't matter what system they are using, the illusion of battle is intact IMHO.

[This message has been edited by Ron Meier (edited 04-17-2000).]

[pritzl]

Well, since being hull down is an all or nothing affair, is there a way to tell when you have hull down status vs a particular enemy unit?

[Simon Fox]

pritzl,

practice

[Scott C]

Also, pritzl, you can use the LOS tool - place it over an enemy unit, and the words "hull down" will appear over _your_ unit if you are. Conversely, if the enemy unit is hull down to you, "hull down" will appear over it.

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Questions, comments, arguments, refutations, criticisms, and/or sea stories?

[pritzl]

Thanks Scott C.

I knew there had to be a way to do it other than just trying to eyeball the terrain. This is especially true since hull down status is a true, false situation.

pritzl