I/O Error Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 Okay, I realize just how many people REALLY don't like the idea of hypothetical wars, prefering that CM stay within the boundaries of reality, not fiction. And for the most part, I agree with that completely. That said, does anyone else relish the idea of a NATO vs. Warsaw Pact war, for instance sometime from 1978-1989? I would LOVE to command either side. I mean, we taught our troops in the 80's to EXPECT a war with Russia. The Soviets taught similar beliefs into THEIR forces. Every plan we had told us that the Soviets were going to come POURING across the Fulda Gap and march on the Bay of Biscay. Huge armies of T-72s, T-62s, BTRs, BMPs, ZSUs, early-model M1s, M60s, M113s, Bradley IFVs... I mean, c'mon, I know SOMEBODY else out there just drools at that idea in a CM-type setting! Tell me you couldn't get into some of that! It's not nearly as hypothetical as some other ideas out there, and it's right at the turning point of History! Well, just an idea. Please don't yell at me, I'm small, weak, and highly flammable. ------------------ Honor, Duty, Courage. Valhalla awaits you, honorable warrior... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flix Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 I'm right there with ya brother. I'd love to see a game using the CM engine in a WWIII type setting. The computer tactical wargame that I've played like that is an obscure little game from the late '80's early 90's call "Break Through. I played it on an Amiga 500. What a blast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 That would indeed be a cool game, but I think we would have to wait until computer improve in quality before such a game could be made. Remember, the ranges of 70's-80's weaponry were considerably longer then those in the 40's. So that means having battle fields many times the size we have now. I dont know about you guys, but on the largest map with many troops, my computer chugs, and its not that old. ------------------ "...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..." - Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris5110 Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 To stay within what CM can do right now. How about the way Gen. Patton saw it ( at least the way he was portrayed in the movie ). Where just after Germany's surrender. The US and soviet forces slug it out. Get that Berlin wall thing settled 40 years early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarhead Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 I agree, I think this would be a lot of fun. But I don't see how it could be pulled of with CM style maps. Because as stated above, the maps would have to be much larger. IMO Any thing less map wise would not be worth the time spent to create it. simply because it would not be a close representation of the type of weapons deployed. The thought does make me drool. ------------------ Semper Fi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarhead Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 After my last post I continued to think about a game covering the cold war. Would you enjoy having Air assault troops standing by. Use it somewhat like a spotter. Click the location you wanted that Rifle co. and 10 turns later here come the choppers. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! ------------------ Semper Fi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commissar Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 Chris, There's another thread for the USSR vs US suggestion. I'd love to see it myself, just for the chance to see what a JS3 can do to one of those pathetic U.S. M-26's! "Davaity, tovarishy, bei capitalistichiskovo gada!" Oh boy, I think Im off drooling again. [This message has been edited by The Commissar (edited 12-10-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MantaRay Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 I love the idea too. Air Assaults, with it maybe showing AB units ziplining....Now I would love that =} SP2 really did this well IMO. My favorite thing besides the Blackhawks was those nasty Apaches.... Ray ------------------ When asked, "How many moves do you see ahead?", CAPABLANCA replied: "One move - the best one." New CM Site. In process of switching. Brought to you by Hardcore Gamers Daily Hardcore Gamers Daily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 Chris5110 wrote: > How about the way Gen. Patton saw it ( at least the way he was portrayed in the movie ). Where just after Germany's surrender. The US and soviet forces slug it out. There is currently another thread on this subject. US vs Russia in CM2. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 11, 2000 Author Share Posted December 11, 2000 I didn't use that thread because I'm talking about a war between the same sides THEY talk about, but with more than 30 years difference! Way I see it, totally different idea, really... ------------------ Honor, Duty, Courage. Valhalla awaits you, honorable warrior... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 11, 2000 Author Share Posted December 11, 2000 Steel Panthers, but in a real 3D engine like Combat Mission? Oh yes. You know you want it... ------------------ Honor, Duty, Courage. Valhalla awaits you, honorable warrior... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catullus Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 I would absolutely love it. As a NATO recon ranger educated in the middle of the '80s, Soviet weapons and vehicles from that epoch are the weapons I know. Maybe artillery, choppers and fighters would be more important than in CM, but now even infantry squad would have AA capabilities. And never forget, in any war, any unit is either a grunt, or a support unit. The war will still be won or lost by the infantryman. C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 Actually, the maps would not have to be huge, or even beyond the 1 km squared type of thing. Assuming the soviets will always overrun the rather open sections of West Germany in the early days of the war, the main fighting would occur in the terrain belt further back. In these situations armor and such would be pretty much limited by the battlefield to fighting it out at 1km or less...and the infantrymen would be more than a line of AT rockets in the MLR as would be more the case in open scenarios. ------------------ For god's sakes how come those machineguns won't die!"-Me, whenevre I'm attacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spii Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 Nato v Warsaw Pact would be very interesting in a CM engine, i would look forward to it greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 We can only dream and hope... I will say this though: It's only a matter of time before someone makes a CM type modern combat game. The cat is out of the bag and game companies are realizing that there is still a lot of money to be made in the wargame industry if you do things right. If BTS doesn't do it someone else will. I hope it is BTS, tho. ------------------ You mean my Java coded Real Time Bar Fight Simulator Madmatt Mission: Beyond BiteMe ISN'T going to be published?!? Madmatt [This message has been edited by Vanir (edited 12-11-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thermopylae: Assuming the soviets will always overrun the rather open sections of West Germany in the early days of the war, [...] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Open sections of West Germany? In the northern parts of Germany, yes. In southern Germany, you'd probably be surprised how rough the terrain is for the most part. I once considered creating a CM battle near my home village (about 50 km east of Stuttgart), but abandoned this project because I would have needed about 100m height difference within a 2x1 km map, with large parts of the map being impassable for tanks (either slope or woods). It looked quite strange in CM. So there are plenty of opportunities for ambushes throughout large parts of Germany. I don't think overrunning such a terrain would have been very easy, but of course, I don't understand very much about those things... Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 11, 2000 Author Share Posted December 11, 2000 The Warsaw Pact plan's (as best as our Intelligence could gather) revolved around smashing through Northern Germany as quickly as possible to either capture or destroy all the industry they could in Ruhr Valley. Ironically enough, the USA got (by random pick) the easiest terrain to guard, that of Southern Germany. The Soviets would INDEED have encountered difficulties there, so they planned to completely bypass that area and advance through the north, which mainly consists of relatively flat terrain, HEAVEN SENT for mass armor attacks... Fortunately, we never had to test just how practical that would have been... *whew* ------------------ Honor, Duty, Courage. Valhalla awaits you, honorable warrior... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 As I/O pointed out, the Soviet plan of attack (according to us)would be to punch through the northern area of germany with probably only one or two armies fighting a holding attack in the south. The terrain belt I refer to is the large strip of woodsy/hilly terrain between the plains/farmland and the Ruhr Industrial center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thermopylae: Actually, the maps would not have to be huge, or even beyond the 1 km squared type of thing...In these situations armor and such would be pretty much limited by the battlefield to fighting it out at 1km or less...and the infantrymen would be more than a line of AT rockets in the MLR as would be more the case in open scenarios. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Recon and missle tracking...Arty..AWAC intel, SATs... all from great ranges..a bigger picture would have to be addressed to be realistic..1km is puny in these conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 you've got my vote.. Id love to see a couple platoons of M1s and some bradleys with an Apache in the bkg try to stop a company of T-72s and a BMP/BTR recon screen. Kinda like M1TP 2, but so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The Commissar: Chris, "Davaity, tovarishy, bei capitalistichiskovo gada!" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Otlez, gnida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermopylae Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 In response to radar: We are only modelling battalion/reinforced company level engagementsa here, in rough terrain. So: 1) intel: probably already gathered. Your a captain, not a colonel or brigadier. 2) Missiles: This could be most liekly ascertained to those annoying Airplanes, helicopters, and SAMs. As such, the current abstracted airpower/flak type of model could be used, except attack helicopters would have a graphic, actually an apache probablly wuldn't..a hellfie would just streak in from 8km out and that would be support.... After all they don't tend to hang around the battle field lots when theres planes in the air. And missiles could easily be treated as a statistical shot in the given terrain, since they don't have far to go... 3) Arty. Works in CM, works for me. We can safely assume that all those pretty battery, counterbattery, find HQ, disrupt supply, hammer positions before assualt, type mission have occurred before the CM fight. 4) strategic assets. Well, I don't think company commanders have to worry about satellite patterns or AWACs for their overhead planes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucero1148 Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 Don't know if anyone here has TAC OPS, but this suberb game covers modern warfare and uses the same game engine as CM (more or less) The graphics are its only fault as it's very simple (looks like you're playing a Avalon Hill board game). I bought this game before CM and enoyed thoroughly. If Tac Ops graphics could be made to look like CM we would have the game that you are all talking about here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radar Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 Yes, but your over simplifying the threat..Sats (not just for pictures anymore), missle (all types) fire, and especially Arty are part of the modern battlefield and not to be looked on lightly, not to mention ballistic computers and such...I like the idea of it though.. ------------------ Run in circles, scream and shout...Brown side in, green side out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted December 16, 2000 Share Posted December 16, 2000 Count me in too. No doubt the engine exists and I will finally rest when a PC version of TAHGC's MBT comes out. I mean I love the WWII stuff but I would stop buying games when a PC game that gives CM like play to this subject comes out. Shrapnel Games is working on a more tactical sequel to Brigade Combat Team. It's only 2D and might look a lot like the CC Series. Pedro ------------------ " the recruits are salty,they are ready to eat their own guts and ask for seconds." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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