GOOD BYE 3DFX!!!!!!!

[jpinard]

Another major letdown from 3dfx. The VOODOO6 has been cancelled because they could not get it to work, and when they did get it to run a few benchmarks, the GeForce2 and the (GeForce2 Ultra) especially blew it away. Now, not only did they lose over $100 million last quarter, but they have no new video cards on the horizon.

Meanwhile, now that Directx 8.0 has been released, NVidia will begin ramping up production to release their next-gen successor to the GeForce2.

If you're planning on getting a new video card, I would not get one by 3dfx. They may not be around for the long-haul, and within 2 months, 3dfx will be two generations behind NVidia.

[Maximus]

What did I tell you...I told you so...

I never did like 3Dfx because of their emphasis on speed rather than quality. Yeah, so what if your video card can push several million polygons per second, but if it displays ****ty images on those polys, what's the use?

I have and always will take quality over quantity.

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--"We want information."

--"Information."

--"Information."

--"Who are you?"

--"The new Number 2."

--"Who is Number 1?"

--"You are Number 6."

--"I am not a number, I am a free man!"

--"Hahahahahahahaha."

[Lawyer]

My Voodoo 5500 makes CM look great at 4x FSAA.

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Let them eat money

[Grognerd_Fogman]

I was thinking bout getting the Creative Labs Annihilator GTS 2 but heard it's finicky with AMD chips. Anyone know how ATI's Radeon does with AMD instead? (DDR 64 model)...

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Thanks for Athskin!

[crepitis]

Get a life Jpinard! I have owned both a Geforce 2 and a Voodoo5500,and I stuck with the Voodoo because it was much more stable than the geforce,although not as fast,The Voodoo's full scene anti-aliasing looks stunning with CMBO(which is pretty much about the only game I play nowadays).I speak from over 15 years experience of computer gaming(pretty sad eh?)and i'm fed up with all of this "my card is better than your card"crap.Horses for courses,and I'm sure all the other V5500 users out there would agree with me when I say that when you've tried V5500 FSAA in CMBO you wouldnt settle for anything less.Cheers,Bob.

[Guest kking199]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Grognerd_Fogman:

I was thinking bout getting the Creative Labs Annihilator GTS 2 but heard it's finicky with AMD chips. Anyone know how ATI's Radeon does with AMD instead? (DDR 64 model)...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I have a Hercules DDR with a Asus K7M MB and Athlon 700 since Jan-00, works great but... I am limited to lower detonator versions due to the rather early date of my MB and chipset issues. If you want to know ATI/Geforce issues with AMD chips check out amdzone.com

[Priest]

I was a Voodoo user for a long time. And still love 3dfx but am a little dissapointd with the Voodoo5 line. It is still a great card but I purchased another . Mainly because at the time I couldn't find a 64mb Ram Voodoo card. So I bought a GForce2 GTS ?Ultra?. It has 4 processors and 64 mb of ram and works great but then again so did my voodoo 3 3500. Anyways the performance is better now but probably because of the new 700 mhz PIII and 782mb of RAM. Hey JP you never emailed me back....scared?

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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb

-Priest

[jpinard]

The GeForce works great with AMD processors now. I have an AMD 950T. Rock Solid. I can run 4x FSAA, and CM looks beautiful.

The main point of this article was: IF YOU ARE THIKING OF GETTING A VIDEO CARD BY 3DFX, THINK TWICE. THE COMPANY IS FAILING ON SEVERAL FRONTS.

Please do not get the ATI Radeon. ATI has not written stable - or fully directx compliant drivers - for their card yet. Madden 2001 will not even run on most configs with an ATI Radeon. They're (ATI cards) cheaper, but less stable due to poor driver coding.

[Jeff Heidman]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crepitis:

Get a life Jpinard! I have owned both a Geforce 2 and a Voodoo5500,and I stuck with the Voodoo because it was much more stable than the geforce,although not as fast,The Voodoo's full scene anti-aliasing looks stunning with CMBO(which is pretty much about the only game I play nowadays).I speak from over 15 years experience of computer gaming(pretty sad eh?)and i'm fed up with all of this "my card is better than your card"crap.Horses for courses,and I'm sure all the other V5500 users out there would agree with me when I say that when you've tried V5500 FSAA in CMBO you wouldnt settle for anything less.Cheers,Bob.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, what you meant to say was that you were fed up with everyone else saying "my video card is better than yours..."

Jeff Heidman

[Jeff Heidman]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lawyer:

My Voodoo 5500 makes CM look great at 4x FSAA.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My GeForce 2 GTS 64 makes CM look great at 1600x1200 without the need to use FSAA.

Jeff Heidman

[Sabrewolf]

Maximus might got the facts wrong between 3dfx and Nvidia. 3dfx produces better graphics and their FSAA was concluded to be far superior than Nvidia's but they lacked a lot in the speed department. So 3dfx = better graphics and nvidia = faster speed on benchmark test. I have both V3 3500 and Geforce GTS but I gave the GTS to my mom cause most of the games I played crashed on Nvidia's chip. No point having good card that cant play the game I love

I find that 3dfx's games are more fun and they seemed to last longer, Nvidia has better technology with their transform and lighting stuff but all those games is not out in the markey yet. But most of these game run into the danger of sacrificing gameplay for graphics, e.g. Nocturne, specifically made for Nvidia, great graphic and character animation, it has lighting and even clothes animation, but gameplay is piss poor We'll just have to wait for Black and White to see whether they will break this trend.

Also, dont forget Nvidia's card is very expensive and they produce new modification every 3 months (ultra, pro, gts, mx) so you might wanna wait or you will regret spending about $400 bucks.

[Hemo2]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sabrewolf:

Also, dont forget Nvidia's card is very expensive and they produce new modification every 3 months (ultra, pro, gts, mx) so you might wanna wait or you will regret spending about $400 bucks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

$400?

You can find an ASUS GeForce2 GTS DDR 32MB cards for $200. Or even $150-$160 for a Vision Tek or Inno3D. You can find the GeForce2 MX 32MB for less than $100.

Now if you're talking the Ultra series with 64MB then yes, $400 or more.

[jpinard]

There is no such thing as the "pro", and the GTS is just the ending anacronym for the GeForce2. NVidia came out with the MX late, as a budget card, so it would not impact those that had already bought the GeForce 2 earlier....................

Also there are many games that use T&L currently (good games), and most games being released this Christmas use exclusive features found on the GeForce. People with Voodoo cards will unfortunately be left out. I could list the 15 high profile games being released in the next month that use exclusive NVidia features, but if you really wanted to see it fopr yourself - check out NVidia's site, and the games themselves......................

You also cannot get past the fact that 3dfx is losing gobs of money because of late and lagging technology. The only thing Voodoo offers is slightly better FSAA, but when you run games at 1280x1024 or higher - FSAA is a total waste. I run all my games at 1024x768, 1280x1024, or 1600x1200. Running a game at 640x480 is idiotic and that's what ALL the FSAA comparisons are based on.........

Final Fact: Gameplay is much better on a high-end NVidia cards because you have the option to run higher resolutions so you can see more of the screen at once, plus much better 32-bit speed........................

Most of all, I'm trying to point out to those looking for video cards this season that 3dfx will/may end up just like Aureal. Better FSAA in 640x480 mode is NO reason to put your hard earned money into a failing company.

[This message has been edited by jpinard (edited 11-13-2000).]

[Jeff Heidman]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sabrewolf:

Maximus might got the facts wrong between 3dfx and Nvidia. 3dfx produces better graphics and their FSAA was concluded to be far superior than Nvidia's but they lacked a lot in the speed department. So 3dfx = better graphics and nvidia = faster speed on benchmark test.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excuse me, but this is pure propaganda. Please cite all these benchmarks that claim that the Voodoo FSAA "crutch" is "far superior" to the GeForce solution, and then explain to me what objective measure they used to come to that conclusion.

The simple fact is that the market is resoundingly showing which is the superior product.

Jeff Heidman

[jpinard]

You know what's really ironic???????????

The GeForce2 can actually perform higher amounts of FSAA (up to 16x) - as compared to the Voodoo 5500's max of 4x. Of course there's not enough memory bandwidth to run 16x at higher resolutions, or in 32-bit color, but still it's kind of amazing - the capability is already built in for the future.

[Supertanker]

If 3dfx goes down the tubes it is bad for the consumer. My old RIVA128 card was crap with a capital C. Compared to the V1/2, it was slow, incompatible, and the image quality was poor. (Did you ever see the D3D patch of Longbow on it? I did, and still shudder at the thought). Why did nVidia get better? Competition with 3Dfx! (Note the old spelling.) If nVidia kills off 3dfx (note new spelling) and keeps ATI out of the high-end market, we can expect much less innovation and advancement in the graphic card industry. Don't believe me? Look at Creative's lack of innovation in the sound card business now that they killed Aureal. This is bad!

I'm not sure why people turn into hardware fanboys of one stripe or the other, but I firmly believe that you should always root for the other company to put out something that kicks the butt of your current favorite product. That way, you know that the next generation of your preferred product is on the drawing board.

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We eat like kings, drink like czars, and game like fat drunken king-czars. - CaSCa

[jpinard]

Actually 3dfx tried to do the same thing a little while ago...... corner the 3d market. They went for broke to dominate and be the ONLY 3d card vendor via the glide API. They paid companies like EA millions of dollars to program specifically for glide. So, I have no compassion for 3dfx since they brought this upon themselves.

and yes... the 128 was a terrible card!

[jpinard]

3dfx stock is at an all-time low ($4/share). Not even when the company went public has its stock been at such a small figure.................

If you believe 3dfx can bounce back, now's the time to buy! Their next card is 6-9 months off.

[crepitis]

Originally posted by Jeff Heidman:

So, what you meant to say was that you were fed up with everyone else saying "my video card is better than yours..."

Yeah sure Jeff and I bet your dad is a better fighter than mine,and you have a bigger House,car,T.V.etc,etc,etc....Yawn.

[Sabrewolf]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>$400?

You can find an ASUS GeForce2 GTS DDR 32MB cards for $200. Or even $150-$160 for a Vision Tek or Inno3D. You can find the GeForce2 MX 32MB for less than $100. Now if you're talking the Ultra series with 64MB then yes, $400 or more.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

MX is the budget series, so yes you can get it cheap but I don't normally recommend buying any computer product that is below the entry level (geforce2 gts) unless you really dont have the cash cause most entry level stuff are already outdated by the time they reach market. (we all know that most company already has future specs for new product rite, they just havent press released it hehehe)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>There is no such thing as the "pro", and the GTS is just the ending anacronym for the GeForce2.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry but there is, but its for the OEM market so it might not be relevant but Geforce2 GTS pro has 20% more bandwidth than the normal ones.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Excuse me, but this is pure propaganda. Please cite all these benchmarks that claim that the Voodoo FSAA "crutch" is "far superior" to the GeForce solution, and then explain to me what objective measure they used to come to that conclusion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I said better graphics, do you know the difference between better graphics and benchmarks. 3dfx = better graphics (not faster). There is no way (as I know) to judge graphics quality other than using your eyes I guess so there is no benchmark for graphics quality. Geforce loses thought at 4x FSAA on Direct3D

Heres an article from a respectable site: http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/articles/3dfx_v5_5500_in-depth/12.shtml

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/articles/3dfx_v5_5500_in-depth/7.shtml for screenshot comparisons

[This message has been edited by Sabrewolf (edited 11-14-2000).]

[Quenaelin]

I want to sorry my response in advance but, what pissing **** are you talking about, read little bit about upcoming 3Dfx and Gigapixel merge, and don't judge after that, you NVidia users.

http://www.3dfx.com/comp/invest/roadshow.pdf

[Quenaelin]

Sorry again, I have 3Dfx card myself but, I want you to remember AMD few years back when Pentium III was released, they got lots of difficulties and nobody could predict that they will be leading-edge prosessor manufactures again. So you can't pronounce that statement it just isn't fair. Every manufacturers are just same bastards they want to make profit and want to get to your moneybag so please remind us that competition is best for us (consumers I mean). To get good quality or even best quality products.

[Private Parts]

Shut

Up

[SS_PanzerLeader]

Well this doesnt suprise me in the least. I have owned two 3dfx cards; The first the 16 meg banshee = POS. The second which Now runs in the other machine is a voodoo 3 2000 = POS. I also have friends running Voodoo (more recent) I have a Viper770 in this machine and the quality of picture over the Voodoo 3 in my sons is astonishing. I wouldnt buy another 3dfx product if I were paid too. Creative Labs also makes real crappy stuff (except sound cards).

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SS_PanzerLeader.......out

[Jeff Heidman]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sabrewolf:

Excuse me, but this is pure propaganda. Please cite all these benchmarks that claim that the Voodoo FSAA "crutch" is "far superior" to the GeForce solution, and then explain to me what objective measure they used to come to that conclusion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

I said better graphics, do you know the difference between better graphics and benchmarks. 3dfx = better graphics (not faster). There is no way (as I know) to judge graphics quality other than using your eyes I guess so there is no benchmark for graphics quality. Geforce loses thought at 4x FSAA on Direct3D

Heres an article from a respectable site: http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/articles/3dfx_v5_5500_in-depth/12.shtml

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/articles/3dfx_v5_5500_in-depth/7.shtml for screenshot comparisons

[This message has been edited by Sabrewolf (edited 11-14-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, lets see where this article claims that the FSAA on the Voodoo is "far superior" to the GeFroce...

Conclusion

The quality of the Voodoo5 5500's FSAA OpenGL implementation exceeds that of the GeForce2 GTS, which lacks 4-sample anti-aliasing. In Direct3D, method three of the GeForce2 GTS's 4-sample FSAA matches that of Voodoo5 5500. Between the Voodoo5 5500 and GeForce2 GTS, the Voodoo5 5500's FSAA solution is the more bandwidth efficient of the two as the anti-aliased image is generated on-chip. This translates into better fillrates with anti-aliasing enabled in Direct3D. Since these consumer FSAA implementations do not eliminate texture aliasing per se, anisotropic and trilinear filtering are essential. Unfortunately, the former is unsupported by the Voodoo5 5500 and support for the latter is as of yet unavailable.

An alternative to FSAA, albeit without the benefit of near 24-bit color precision, is to run the 3D application at very high resolutions. 'Polygon' popping is reduced because polygons are less likely to be missed during sampling. Although 'staircasing' is not eliminated, its visual impact is minimized due to the smaller onscreen pixel size at higher resolutions. Unfortunately the Voodoo5 5500, in contrast to the GeForce2 GTS, becomes severely bandwidth limited at a resolution and color depth of 1600x1200x16.

Gee, looks like it says absolutely nothing of the kind. In fact, it says precisely what several of us have already pointed out, namely that FSAA is only relevant at relatively low resolutions.

Thanks for playing!!

Jeff Heidman