Blackwood Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 Has anyone else experienced Us atomic grenades. Justfinished playing a QB Germans vs US a Panther decided pit its self against A US Pl Hq at about 20 metres, the panther fired its main gunned 4 times + MGs no apparent damage, US HQ throw Grenade, dead tank! Thinking his was a bit odd replayed sequence another 4 times via auto save panther every time, gotta be something out of whack here. grenades aren't that good. Charles any thoughts of cranking down the lethal effect of grenades. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAEZ Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 The beauty of Cm is that things happened differently every time. What happened to you is just one of the probabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 Blackwood, I believe this sort of attack represents a close infantry attack like throwing a grenade in a hatch, under the turret ring, etc...could be wrong though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 Aye, what you saw ( the grenade) is merely a graphical representation of an infantry close assault ( why do you think I've been trying to keep my tanks more than 30 metres from your infantry at all times? ). Good US troops can close assault and take out isolated tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Shaw Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Good US troops can close assault and take out isolated tanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Indeed they can ... I was very pleased to see the effectiveness of "ordinary" infantry against unsupported AFVs. In a Bulge scenario I took out two Panthers and a MkIV in a tight, forested road. In another I took out a Stug that found itself behind my lines. And both cases were using ordinary (i.e. Non AT) infantry. I'd always read that AFV's without infantry are dead meat in close situations, CM models that very well. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PraetorianXXI Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 I was browsing through a military magazine yesterday when i came across the israeli section! it says they made a nuclear grenade, i burst out in laughter everyone in the newsagent turned round and looked @ me anyway what i was thinking why the hell have a nuclear grenade, you cant downsize a nuclear explosion (i need one of those for PBEMs) also how many grenades do troops carry? ------------------ ~Veni Vidi Vici~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 IIRC, the Soviets made some special AT hand grenades (I can't for sure remember if they made it into WWII), including a couple models with a cute litte parachute to make sure the shaped charge was pointing the right way... Can anyone confirm WWII usage of these? If so, will they be included in CM2? For that matter, how about dogmines? (and will they blow up your own tanks? ) ------------------ "Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakko Ichiu Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 In {REDACTED} I had a lot of fun luring a Tiger into a street overlooked by two story buildings. In the top floor of one of those buildings hid a squad of US Paras w/Gammon bombs and demo charges. They dropped one onto the roof of the kitty. End of Tiger. ------------------ Ethan ----------- Das also war des Pudels Kern! -- Goethe [This message has been edited by Hakko Ichiu (edited 07-17-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 Praetorian, If that's the kind of source you believe then you REALLY need better sources. The thing about the German A-bomb is just pure crap. It is often peddled by neo-nazi groups to tout German technical superiority etc. As for the nuke grenade.. A twisting of a real weapon. Care to name the mag? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talenn Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 Just here to cast my vote in agreement with the way CM models Close Assaults vs AFVs. Far too many games make AFVs uber-beasts that dont have to fear infantry at close ranges. In reality, treadheads are terrified of getting too close to the crunchies! CM models that quite well IMO. Talenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henri Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 [qote]Has anyone else experienced Us atomic grenades. Justfinished playing a QB Germans vs US a Panther decided pit its self against A US Pl Hq at about 20 metres, the panther fired its main gunned 4 times + MGs no apparent damage, US HQ throw Grenade, dead tank! Thinking his was a bit odd replayed sequence another 4 times via auto save panther every time, gotta be something out of whack here. grenades aren't that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Törni Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 Nuclear greneade???????? Are you abslutely sure the mag wasn't referring to a nuclear artillery shell. These tactical nuces do exist. You can blow few square kilomikes sky high with these. Designed to stop and destroy conteporary mobile troops quick and sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paullus Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 US Engineers have access to nuclear land mines (for demolition & area denial), but they aren't available for everyday use. I don't think they've ever been able to get a nuclear device smaller than that, and the land mine is still fairly large (larger than a suitcase, about 5kt of explosive power). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 I had problems with granades. Once assualt with 2 groups of german infantry failed to do any damage to M-36 jackson. Thats an open top vehicle! I was sure they will take it out. Instead I lost 7 volks. (They did throw 3 granades - and nothing happened!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dittohead Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 I was just re-reading a section of "Against the Panzers" which does detail some of the street fighting between GI's and german Tanks. Most often the Gi's did not destroy the tanks with close assault tactics, instead they always managed to scrounge up a bazooka and destroy the tank from less then 200 m with a side shot. The close assault capabilties of inf may be a bit over rated IMHO. But the GI always found a way to get the job done. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 What I really like are these posts where someone has something unexpected happen once, maybe they are not used to it from playing too much CC or whatever (not saying that is the case here) and then calls for changes to the coding. That shows a lot of trust in the competence of BTS, the game-testers and those of us (including real military types) who have played CM for months now. Just my £0.02. A suggestion when something like this happens: a) take a deep breath try to recreate the scene in another scen c) go to your bookshelf/local library/chapters and check up on (insert problem area here) tactics/history d) do a search e) in 99.5% of cases (please note this number is purely arbitrary and not scientifically arrived at) be satisfied with the way the game handles it or with how Charles has already stated he will change the code f) sit back, have a drink (if you are of the right age) and fire up another scenario in the knowledge that the problem is either being addressed or is actually not a problem at all. Sorry for the rant. ------------------ Andreas [This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 07-17-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 Ok - but open top vehicles should be quite easy to destroy with a grenade right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by killmore: Ok - but open top vehicles should be quite easy to destroy with a grenade right?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not remotely! I mean, sure, in theory, it sounds easy. Trot up, toss a grenade over the top, boom, no more tank. But think about it in real life. You are Joe Bloe, sitting in your foxhole. You have no Bazooka, no Panzerfaust, no Piat. This 30 ton steel thing comes rolling up to you, spitting out machine gun bullets. There is fire all around you. You cannot hear much of anything, you are not quite sure what happened to your NCO, and your friend Bill just got creamed, and is screaming his bloody head off for a medic, one of which you haven't seen for 3 days. So here comes this M-36 Jackson. You know that it has an open top, and it is just about 20m away. Why, you could toss a grenade right in there! Yeahm, right. Have you even thrown a baseball that accurately at something even 15 yards away, much less 25? That about the length of 1/2 a football field. How about when people are shooting at you, or even around you? Tanks are in real danger when unsupported by infantry, but do not overestimate the ability of a bunch of troops to run up and attack an armored vehicle. Even if they theoretically can take it out, and sometimes do, when it comes down to it, you are asking a man to go and take on a steal beast. That is not an easy thing to do under any circumstances. I would contend that unless your troops are at *least* regular, and more likely veteran, there should be VERY little chance of them getting the gumption up to even attack a tank, much less succeeding. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GI Tom Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy: A suggestion when something like this happens: a) take a deep breath try to recreate the scene in another scen c) go to your bookshelf/local library/chapters and check up on (insert problem area here) tactics/history d) do a search e) in 99.5% of cases (please note this number is purely arbitrary and not scientifically arrived at) be satisfied with the way the game handles it or with how Charles has already stated he will change the code f) sit back, have a drink (if you are of the right age) and fire up another scenario in the knowledge that the problem is either being addressed or is actually not a problem at all.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Vanna, I'd like to buy a vowel please.. E GI Tom ------------------ To a New Yorker like you, a hero is some type of wierd sandwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GI Tom: Vanna, I'd like to buy a vowel please.. E GI Tom <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Nah - too much time in the German army. 'Scen' is short for scenario. Americans should understand, or so I hoped. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 Those nuke nades are actually the same as they used in the movie Starship Troopers. They are researching on some rifle nuke-nades now because the infantry that used the nukes all go in the blast or get radiated. All this is very hush-hush at the moment because it's not patented yet, expect Nuko-nade® to hit local armsdealers by x-mas (offer only available in US). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GI Tom Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 Germanboy, Hmm..maybe I missed your post. Or maybe you missed mine. The reason I said "E" was because that's the best way to handle the situation IMHO.. "e) in 99.5% of cases (please note this number is purely arbitrary and not scientifically arrived at) be satisfied with the way the game handles it or with how Charles has already stated he will change the code" GI Tom ------------------ To a New Yorker like you, a hero is some type of wierd sandwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GI Tom: Hmm..maybe I missed your post. Or maybe you missed mine. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I missed you. It is kinda late here and I did not have the greatest day. Sorry. Oh, and his name was different in the German version of the Sesame Street... If that is what Vanna refers to. ------------------ Andreas [This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 07-17-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted July 17, 2000 Share Posted July 17, 2000 Regarding open top Jackson... Well there was nothing left but 1 jackson. No other sources of fire/suppression. My 2 squads come from opposite sides. They runned to within 3 meters on opposide sides of M-36. Jakson did not open fire until one squad was within 10 meters. The other squad wasnot fired upon. It could have been just bad luck - terrible, really terrible one. What I really want to know is that BTS made sure that open top vehicles are say 100% easier to kill in close infantry assault. But if squads were within 3 meters fo 40 seconds that should pretty much mean a kill of open top vehicle. They did not panic until last 10 sec of the turn... [This message has been edited by killmore (edited 07-17-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aacooper Posted July 18, 2000 Share Posted July 18, 2000 Regarding open-top AFV's, grenades weren't the only thing they feared. Let me quote from "Patton's Ghost Corps": This is from a passage describing the 11th Panzer Division's attempt to retake Tettingen and Butzdorf on January 15th, 1945. "[Lt. Col. Minor] also attempted to get tank destroyers forward to force the enemy armor to withdraw, or better, to destroy it. Neither was possible because enemy snipers were active, and the unprotected crews of the tank destroyers were easy targets. This made it difficult to get into firing positions." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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