Noob question about artillery/air support

[Endyamon]

Hi all

Sorry for the noob question, but I can't understand how artillery (and especially) air support works. I mean, a lot of time I have one of them (or both) with the big red mark and "denied" word on them, so I'm wondering how you can properly use them. Do you need a special type of unit? Do you first have to "clear" the ground from air defences?

Sorry for my english and thanks for the replies

 

[grunt_GI]

Hi, so here's one thing to keep in mind about artillery and air support.  ONLY certain Russian or Ukrainian units can call for them.  For air support only AIR CONTROLLER teams can call for it.  Same thing for artillery, only HQ and Forward Observer units can call for artillery. Drones are also limited to HQ units

For the Americans, it's a bit simpler, almost any unit can call for air or artillery support, although HQ and Forward Observer teams are best.  Drones are usually tasked by a HQ unit

AND, of course, if you have on map mortar teams, they must be deployed before you can call for support from them.  Page 40 of the PDF manual is a pretty good reference for all things support fire.

[Endyamon]

Hi, thanks for the reply
I've checked on the manual but I still have a little doubt. From the manual they say that the unit with the binoculars icon should be able to call artillery and air support. Now, I'm playing the ukrainian campaign and I have this unit with the binoculars, but I can only call for artillery, while the air support still have the denied word. Do these units need to have a proper equip to call air support?
Again sorry, but english is not my main language so maybe i'm missing something

Thanks

 

[grunt_GI]

10 minutes ago, Endyamon said:

Hi, thanks for the reply
I've checked on the manual but I still have a little doubt. From the manual they say that the unit with the binoculars icon should be able to call artillery and air support. Now, I'm playing the ukrainian campaign and I have this unit with the binoculars, but I can only call for artillery, while the air support still have the denied word. Do these units need to have a proper equip to call air support?
Again sorry, but english is not my main language so maybe i'm missing something

Thanks

 

For the Ukrainians and Russians you have FORWARD OBSERVERS and AIR CONTROL TEAMS.  They BOTH have the binoculars icon, you can only tell the difference by actually clicking on them to read the unit type.  It takes a bit of clicking sometimes, but make sure you find your AIR CONTROL TEAM...if I recall from the Ukrainian campaign,  you usually get ONE per scenario, usually by the MAIN HQ unit for that scenario if I recall, so don't get them killed. 

[hattori]

You will notice when you buy air support, there will be a small comment "air controller needed" on the purchase screen.  

Binoculars are binoculars, they are good for spotting, but have nothing to do with calling in planes or helicopters.  

Pretty much if you want to use a plane or helicopter, you also need an air controller to give orders to them.

[Endyamon]

Oh, didn't know that. Guess I'll have to check more carefully then

Thanks for the support

 

[John Kettler]

Endyamon,

Welcome aboard!

From the way you posed your questions, it sounds as though you're playing a QB (Quick Battle). Is this correct? If so, please understand the computer can and will give you FOs and ACs (Air Controllers) without having actual FS (fire support) assets at their disposal. This is driven, I believe, by the total point size selected for the game. I've had a bunch of occasions in which I got lots of hammer swingers--but no hammers. There are few things more frustrating than having an FO or AC who has zero aircraft and artillery assets on call when the foe is ruining your day. What you have then is just a super high tech set of eyeballs, another spotter team.

How to avoid such problems? When you set up a QB, under Unit Selection, the default is Automatic. Instead, select Human. You can do this for both forces or just yours. Now the agonizing decision making is yours, limited by the force size you've chosen. To get the FOs and ACs, you'll need to buy the parent formations, then pare them down as needed. By choosing Human, you not only have control of what you buy, but how much and how good, in what shape and of which morale. These are how you, to borrow a boxing term, make weight (don't exceed your allotted points). And as reading the FOs Conduct of Fires Net thread by TheForwardObserver will conclusively show, these soft factors can exert considerable impact on the effectiveness and timeliness of your FS, whatever it may be.

Your English is fine, considerably better than that of juniors and sophomores I peer tutored in the mid-1970s!

Regards,

John Kettler

Edited September 29, 2016 by John Kettler

[Endyamon]

Thank you

I wasn't playing the QB, I was on the last mission of Ukrainian campaign, and believe it or not, I've never used the air support before

Anyway, this is a good information for when I'll play with quick battles

Thank you again

[Sublime]

Ok. Almost every US unit can call in any support. However JTAC teams are  best for air support while FOs are best for artillery. 

TRPs help a lot and especislly for Ukr or Russia I consider essential.

For Russian and Ukrainian units each bttn tactical group usually has one air controller that as said is usually the third or fourth unit after bttn hq, xo, hq support team.

The air controller is absolutely necessary for calling in air. Artillery needs a FO though most HQ units can call it in but at a heavy time penalty ( this is why TRPS are so important for those sides )

Air power is great and all but given current avstractions its a risky risky proposition. Any Ukr or Russian player would be anfool to not buy at least one tunguska. Especially as theyre very useful against ground targets too and can down all drones.

A US player would be a fool not to have a few stinger teams but they cant hit all the enemy drones out there as an option even so thats a disadvantage.

Still air power is risky. Unless youre sure theres no AD or you.ve neutralized it you risk the planes calling off the attack or being shot down. Then you just lost likr 3k points ( cheapest US planes air F15Es iirc theyre like 3k in points. You can delete one and have a single plane for air support but still )

Artillery is almosy always a safer bet. The enemy can move or hide but they cant shoot down arty rounds. Counter battery is out of the scope of the game. And air support has a way higher chance of friendly fire whereas with artillery unless you call in an emergency strike ( no spotting rounds) if you suffer friendly casualties you moved your men too close and its your fault.

That said if you can as US have airsupport and using one or 2 self proppelled paladins and sneaky 2 man javelin teams to precision strike enemy tunguskas..  abd then fly a drone. If its unmolested call the airbsupport in because a 500lb bomb is devastating to the enemy.

For the Russian side I dont always do it but sometimes Ill buy su25ms. One module. And ill call em in preplanned on a target light where i think US armor is most concentrated. This either works rlly well or fails spectacularly. If it works well some humvees and maybe a bradley blow up but the mosy important thing isnt what you see- its your su25s strafing abrams and destroying alot of their sensors or maybe hitting the gun(!)

If theyre alive still next missiob call in a heavy attack so they use bombs etc on enemy armor or infantry. Russian planes respond so slowly though that really the first preplanned attack is all you can hope to rely on unles you.re attacking and can pause and wait 10 min for next airstrike. Otherwis americans move too fast.

[kraze]

It's worth noting that when you eventually get to QB - the way to get an enjoyable experience out of it is 'human' selection of army lists for both you and the enemy. AI is pretty terrible at picking good composition of forces (it always uses the same generic composition that often does not suit the challenge posed by your forces well) and manually selecting a list that counters yours will give AI a fighting chance as well as give you some challenge and thus more fun.