MBT Defensive smoke launcher question

[AttorneyAtWar]

Are the Abrams smoke launchers intended to cover only itself or is it also designed to cover friendly vehicles around it?

I always run into the problem of having an Abrams that gets a laser spot blinding everyone else around him. Of course this is largely my fault due to spacing but depending on the situation I don't have much of a choice.

Draws Abrams pentagram on the ground to summon Panzer

Edited May 29, 2016 by Raptorx7

[Rebby]

MBT pop smokes I think cover only the front of the said MBT and no any friendly or hostile units near it. Honeslty, I doubt you would rely too much on single pop smoke to cover other combat vehicles. 

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

1 hour ago, Raptorx7 said:

Are the Abrams smoke launchers intended to cover only itself or is it also designed to cover friendly vehicles around it?

I always run into the problem of having an Abrams that gets a laser spot blinding everyone else around him. Of course this is largely my fault due to spacing but depending on the situation I don't have much of a choice.

Draws Abrams pentagram on the ground to summon Panzer

Speak of the devil and he shall appear.

It's not intended to screen more than the vehicle itself, but it's also intended to screen a wide enough area to allow the tank to maneuver or withdraw without leaving the smokescreen.  If tanks are especially close the smoke will mask all of them.

[John Kettler]

Raptorx7,

The Abrams continues to follow the smoke grenade philosophy and core engineering approach which began in WW II. The launchers cover an arc based on which way the turret is oriented at the time the smoke grenades are launched. This can be rather embarrassing if the tank is oriented forward but dealing with a flank target and pops smoke, but another threat, be it frontal or on the other flank kicks in. Now the tank has an open flank when it comes to visual (and maybe IR) observation and targeting. The only exception to the general rule is smoke grenade launcher installation on such things as the WW II Dingo AC and similar. There, the pattern is solely oriented on which way the vehicle is pointing when engaged. panzersaurkrautwerfer is correct in pointing out that part of the purpose of the smokescreen is to give the tank some maneuvering room in order to reposition. But if you really want to see that effect in action run a battle with Russian tanks vs US. The Russians' Shtora system puts out huge wide clouds of smoke and much farther from the tank than the American ones. But there's a price to be paid, in that it takes longer to get the grenades downrange and in play. I've gotten multiple kills because not fully established screens allowed me to lase and blaze, which would've been impossible with the screen fully deployed. Once fired, the KE doesn't care whether the screen's complete by the time it gets there. The Russians have demonstrated some near instantaneous stuff which shrouds the tank on all sides and above. I believe this is designed to defeat the full spectrum of optically aimed, optically or laser guided, thermally aimed and/or guided and top attack threats. I do not know whether it's been deployed. Perhaps BTR can enlighten us?

I'm not at all sure what BFC's policy is on using black magic (that pentragram is intended, I believe, to confine a demon) to get another Member to join a thread. But if panzersaurkrautwerfer fancies himself the devil, then perhaps the pentagram is warranted! I have no doubt that had he gone to war, his foes would've deemed him the very devil himself, for we would've been a terror.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Sublime]

He did goto war. Said so himself numerous times. He was in Iraq.

[John Kettler]

Sublime,

Thanks! I appreciate the correction, and now prompted by you, do recall his having talked about that. I suspect I got crossed up and confused in the moment, likely in an effort not to get him, who formerly served, tangled up with panzerleader, who's still on active duty.

Regards,

John Kettler

 

[Sublime]

Yeah no biggie just pointing it out. Not sure if raptor has seen combat but i think he has and is a vet.

Codename duchess has seen combat and is an active duty f18 pilot

[AttorneyAtWar]

26 minutes ago, Sublime said:

Yeah no biggie just pointing it out. Not sure if raptor has seen combat but i think he has and is a vet.

Codename duchess has seen combat and is an active duty f18 pilot

No, I am definitely not a vet, just a very curious civilian who has far too much of an interest in military matters and tech like this.

Although I have tried to join the military before, wasn't denied outright so the possibility is still there.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Raptorx7

[Sublime]

Oh. My mistake thought you were. I was supposed to enlist at age 17 my father was gonna sign for me. This was 02. I for sure woulda been in the invasion as I was enlisting as a combat infantryman.

In a way im glad i couldnt get away from drugs and therefore enlist. I know im not a coward as far as street fights but thats a lot different than assault rifles beinng shot at you. And id hate to find out im a coward in that sense and it kill someone.

As for now besides my age ( 31 ) the military wouldnt accept me regardless because of my record.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

On 6/6/2016 at 5:35 AM, Sublime said:

He did goto war. Said so himself numerous times. He was in Iraq.

I feel sort of weird calling it war.  It was more like a genuinely unpleasant experience in which there was a remote chance someone's attempt to kill me and my person may intersect for a fleeting period of time before returning to tedium.  But I did indeed deploy to Iraq twice.

Most of my tankerisms come actually from after that period during which I served in a Combined Arms Battalion stationed in Korea (and Armor Officer's Course naturally many moons ago), and the fact that like many of you, I am, was, and likely will be rather interested in military affairs.  

There's a lot more colorful veterans on here than I, but I do think I am the only M1A2 SEP v2 tanker that's passed through these parts.

 

 

1 minute ago, Sublime said:

Oh. My mistake thought you were. I was supposed to enlist at age 17 my father was gonna sign for me. This was 02. I for sure woulda been in the invasion as I was enlisting as a combat infantryman.

In a way im glad i couldnt get away from drugs and therefore enlist. I know im not a coward as far as street fights but thats a lot different than assault rifles beinng shot at you. And id hate to find out im a coward in that sense and it kill someone.

As for now besides my age ( 31 ) the military wouldnt accept me regardless because of my record.

I never had to kill anyone (well, directly) but when things go sideways you usually don't have time to think about more than what to do next.  Like the most scared I really felt was actually compiling my unit's history roll up for the deployment.  We'd received intelligence that we were going to be targeted by an IRAM attack*, and one of those had done a number on one of our sister unit's FOBs.  I wasn't so worried about the attack, as much as making sure I'd done literally everything I was supposed to do defeat the attack (as the history report was simply an extra duty, I was commander of the base defense at the time).  You're really well trained to deal with situations that involve a lot of violence, or requiring hard sharp actions.  I don't think much prepares you for the "sometime, in the next few weeks someone will really try to murder you where you sleep" sort of anxiety, as does the fact in that sort of role you only ever know if you failed (as the difference between "your defenses are too strong and the enemy finds a softer target" and "they're going to hit you next week because you're a bunch of chowderheads with no security" is not one announced to you).

*An IRAM is basically a IED mated to a 122 mm rocket motor.  It has very short range, but does a lot more damage than most indirect fire weapons.  On the other hand it did require getting the thing set up right on front of the targeted base.  Usually this was done with a large cargo or dump truck, although one really clever terrorist cell basically built its IRAMs inside of what just looked like a new house under construction.  It was not usually a very successful tactic simply because of the complexity in getting the launch platform close enough, and the finicky nature of the IRAM itself but it was devastating when it worked right.  

[Sublime]

well pz i consider it a war. And Im sure the dead do too. And Id like to extend my heartfelt gratitude for your service and the same on my 5 yr old sons behalf. The foreign fighters in Iraq would gleefuly have killed me or him if given the chance just because we.re Americans and therefore Im happy the US military killed them.

My Marine friend told me a couple interesting things. He killed 4 people for sure. All in Phantom Fury 2. He keeps the number at 4 because he says deep down its prolly much higher because as casualties mounted the ROEs started going out the window and as he said. Sometimes we.d clear a room with a grenade and then find out it was just scared women and kids. Sometimes it was 4 jihadis with ak47s. He focussed on 4 because it was a tangible solid number he could hold on to. It really haunts him.

He also told me about a boot RTO who excitedly told a CAS pilot "whoooeeee you musta gotten at least 20 insurgents with that bomb" and I guess the pilot got pretty upset on the radio and told the person he never ever wantes to hear how many dead humans there were because of his weapons.

He also told me one of the most haunting stories about Iraq I ever heard. For one I didnt know after death the body can have a pulse for a few minutes sometimes. Tats critical to the story but Im not gonna repeat it here. Its very tragic and it really eats him up.

Interesting I.d never heard of IRams before.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Sublime

[General Melchid]

In my opinion it's a real shame that more modern tanker's haven't passed this way. I also find it surprising ; in that a fair amount of US, EU and RU tankers have been trained but nowhere near enough have been introduced to this fantastic sim ( maybe they don't want a busman's holiday  )

[Sublime]

Or theyre playing Steel Beasts, steel fury or the one set in iran iraq war. ( or is it other way around ones set ww2 east frnt ones iran iraq) or even.god forbid WoT

[AttorneyAtWar]

Now theres an idea!

Everyone buy Steel Beasts, we'll hop in some SEPV2's and panzer can be platoon/company lead!

[General Melchid]

Hmmm..perhaps. Howver I find it difficult to play games that give me less of a tactical representation and would of assumed that was doubly true for "real" tanker's.

Arcade games I love(although I'm a little 2 slow for them nowadays) but not for my mil-sim fix.

[Sublime]

Lmao cant afford it. Does steel beasts have infantry? Or still not?

I really wanna play Panxer Fury or Steel fury but I cant find mods that are basically essential to a good game exp.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

1 hour ago, Sublime said:

well pz i consider it a war. And Im sure the dead do too. And Id like to extend my heartfelt gratitude for your service and the same on my 5 yr old sons behalf. The foreign fighters in Iraq would gleefuly have killed me or him if given the chance just because we.re Americans and therefore Im happy the US military killed them.

My Marine friend told me a couple interesting things. He killed 4 people for sure. All in Phantom Fury 2. He keeps the number at 4 because he says deep down its prolly much higher because as casualties mounted the ROEs started going out the window and as he said. Sometimes we.d clear a room with a grenade and then find out it was just scared women and kids. Sometimes it was 4 jihadis with ak47s. He focussed on 4 because it was a tangible solid number he could hold on to. It really haunts him.

He also told me about a boot RTO who excitedly told a CAS pilot "whoooeeee you musta gotten at least 20 insurgents with that bomb" and I guess the pilot got pretty upset on the radio and told the person he never ever wantes to hear how many dead humans there were because of his weapons.

He also told me one of the most haunting stories about Iraq I ever heard. For one I didnt know after death the body can have a pulse for a few minutes sometimes. Tats critical to the story but Im not gonna repeat it here. Its very tragic and it really eats him up.

Interesting I.d never heard of IRams before.

It was certainly a war for a lot of people.  I just expected a magic line I crossed and I'd become a seasoned warrior of battle, and that moment never came.  There's a distinct separation from civilians in a lot of ways, but it has more to do with the "community" of being in the military and the shared cultural experience than that I've seen people reduced to people parts.  

If I'd had the chance I'm sure someone would have tried to drill me between the eyes, and I'd have splatted him if I had to.  It's just again you expect Saving Private Ryan and you get Catch 22/Waiting for Gordot, Army edition.

 

Fallujah was some bad mojo.  For the majority of combat dues, let alone support guys it was a much different war.

I'm not sure about the getting upset on the radio.  Marines especially are pretty strongly into brevity.  Might have happened, but I don't know many Marine pilots that would have said anything off the "I am giving you CAS" script.  Conversations outside of what is needed are pretty hollywood outside of inter-platoon stuff (or there's usually a lot of people on a network.  Also most pilots I've met are pretty okay with killing stuff.  They're not monsters, just all the "this dude is a bad dude" remains untainted with seeing people parts up close and scattered.  I watched 20+ people go dead all at once over thermal cameras.  Outside of the emotional aspect of wondering if something is wrong with me for not feeling anything, it doesn't upset me too deeply.  You're remote.  They're not "real" because they're just images on a screen, and this is pretty consistent with most dudes doing wartime killing (the farther you are from the act, the more okay you are).  

The thing that bothers me most in terms of dead folks is I had to deliver the personal effects for a contractor who'd died in one of our convoys.  Like not Blackwater contractor, he was some electrician who was working on our base to make it less of a deathtrap in the showers.  He was super-dead in that he caught the full on force of an anti-tank grenade, I didn't see him, but we recovered his untouched personal bags from the HMMWV and I was tasked to deliver it to his coworkers back on the big base.  The same day I helped pack up the personal effects of one of the guys who'd been wounded in the same attack and evacuated from theater.

Personal effects are weird just because it's like, the outline around where a person used to be.  The contractor packed up all his stuff nice and neat expecting to be back to the rear in time for dinner.  When you expect death, or see death in a proper death-risk context it's not so disturbing.  When it's presented as a truncation of life, then it's upsetting because it's a reminder than death isn't exactly waiting for you to find a spot in life to call it quits.


Re: Steel Beasts

I really don't like most tank simulators.  A tank isn't controlled by a pilot, it's run by four human brains acting in concert.  Commanding it isn't so much sitting behind your joystick and executing things, it's giving instructions to your crew and they use their brains to make things happen.  Very different feel from Steel Beasts.  

[AttorneyAtWar]

1 hour ago, Sublime said:

Lmao cant afford it. Does steel beasts have infantry? Or still not?

I really wanna play Panxer Fury or Steel fury but I cant find mods that are basically essential to a good game exp.

Mechanized infantry is modeled and you can actually move around as them and use javelins if they have them which is pretty cool.

[Sublime]

The price tag still scares me off.

Pz, the marine in question had only had ever remembered getting USAF and Navy air support. He didnt say it like it was a convo or breakfown on radio rather mre like a quick "I dont want to know that." But who knows.

[sburke]

11 hours ago, panzersaurkrautwerfer said:

Re: Steel Beasts

I really don't like most tank simulators.  A tank isn't controlled by a pilot, it's run by four human brains acting in concert.  Commanding it isn't so much sitting behind your joystick and executing things, it's giving instructions to your crew and they use their brains to make things happen.  Very different feel from Steel Beasts.  

Just for you Panzer. ;-)

 

[LukeFF]