Wesy Posted December 18, 1999 Share Posted December 18, 1999 Okay, I'm buying a new computer in part to play CM. I can get a Dell PIII (not sure how fast I'll choose, but somewhere between 500 and 700 mhz). The tougher question is the video card and I can choose from two: 1) 32MB Diamond Viper V770D Nvidia TNT2 Ultra AGP Cad 2)33MB Nvidia geForce 4x AGPCard. I would have to pay a small amount to upgrade to the geFORCE card, but it might be worth it. However, I don't play FPS or flight sims. I'm more into War/strategy games. For sports games, I use my Dreamcast. Is anyone running CM using a geForce card is it worth the extra amount (ie is CM stable running with this card - since it's so new - well I don't mean CM, but are the video drivers stable?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Foobar Posted December 18, 1999 Share Posted December 18, 1999 I have the diamond viper 770 tnt-2 ultra, and it works great! By the way, The game will look even better once the final version arrives, because right now, i think we're only using standard windows video drivers. You're not even using your agp on this demo, or at least that's what my brother told me. I've heard good things about both of those cards, and I think you will be pleased with either one.. me, I am waiting for the N10 chip from nvidia, before I upgrade my video again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted December 18, 1999 Share Posted December 18, 1999 Wesy, I just got my Dell PIII 500Mhz machine about 3 weeks ago. I went w/ the Nvidia GeForce 256 card. It is quite simply put, *** FANTASTIC ***. Highly recommended and well worth the additional cost over the TNT2 Ultra Card (at least it was when I got mine since it was only $10 more!). In a word, get one. Regards, Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted December 18, 1999 Share Posted December 18, 1999 I got the regular TNT 2 diamon 770 works awesome for CM SS_PanzerLeader........out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted December 18, 1999 Share Posted December 18, 1999 Like you I got my new system a couple of months ago with CM as the prime motivator. i also have the TNT and it works great. I don't know much about the geforce but if is a lot more money it might be overkill. My thinking when I got my system is get the most tricked out system that is in your budget because if you cut a corner it will be outdated in 4 months instead of 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted December 19, 1999 Share Posted December 19, 1999 Get the geforce! Cm runs so butter smooth - it looks freaky on replay - especially the tanks, it looks so surreal.... ------------------ ------------------ CCJ BLITZ_Force My HomePage -----> www.geocities.com/coolcolj/ Check out my Combat Mission Beta Demo Tweaked Textures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted December 19, 1999 Share Posted December 19, 1999 OK ..now I'm jealous..how do I get geforce?. How much can I expect to pay (US)?Is it just an update for my TNT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted December 19, 1999 Share Posted December 19, 1999 GeForce is a totally new AGP only chip. The big news about it is that it is a Graphical Processing Unit, or GPU. It completes the task of offloading graphics work from the CPU, freeing up the CPU power for things like physics computation and AI routines. The sum total is that graphics standards can be higher than ever without stealing from other areas of gameplay. It goes as far beyond TNT2 or VooDoo3 as those went beyond the VooDoo2 chips. It supports individual object textures of like 2056x2056 pixels, whereas the current generation maxes at about 256x256. It performs transform&lighting functions (dealing, IIRC, with the effects of fast motion on light sources and reflections) totally on chip. Basically, everything about it is 3 rungs up on the ladder. The GeForce is so powerful, though, that only a few games made currently will give one a real workout. Quake3, the next game in the Descent line (whatever and whevever that'll be) Thief2 (I'm sure there will be a Thief2), and other games with HEAVY use of lighting effects, transparent fog, etc etc (think FPS and flight sims) will need something this powerful. For other games, including CM, a card of this power is overkill, IMHO, because BTS is deliberately keeping graphics loads low in order to provide a game for people with older machines (for which I salute them, having an obsolescent Stealth3DPro/8MB Monster2 combo running the picture show for me) If you really gotta have one, expect to pay between $200 and $240, depending on whether you're willing to order cheaply from unknown web-companies, or will pay the premium to have the assurance of something like EBX's liberal return policy. I work for a reseller right now (as I believe I state every so often) so I could actually get one of those cards for whatever the dealer cost is. Of course, since I don't have AGP, why would I want to do that? DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromit Posted December 19, 1999 Share Posted December 19, 1999 Wesy: IMO you should get the GeoForce for two reasons- 1. It's the card of the future (compared to the TNT2), not that the TNT2 isn't good, mind you 2. I don't like Diamond products anymore due to the fact they are now owned by S3. Bottom line is that you will not be getting any new driver updates/improvements because the TNT2 is based on an NVIDIA chip- direct competition for S3... Food for thought Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eridani Posted December 19, 1999 Share Posted December 19, 1999 First of all, don't get a PIII, your wasteing your money on a processors that is A- More expensive and B- Slower than the AMD Athlon. There is simply nothing that the PIII has that the Athlon doesn't... Don't be an In-Hell lemming. In terms of video cards, I use a Viper V770, its fine, I need a better processors (still putzing around at 300mhz on the original k6), but I'm waiting for the Athlon 1 (ghz) which officially will be out q2 '99 (but with intel being petty and releasing an 800mhz part that doesn't exist next week, AMD will probably push that up, they have the 1ghz part right now) my $.02 worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eridani Posted December 19, 1999 Share Posted December 19, 1999 q2 '00 I mean, I'm still not used to that whole new-decade thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted December 19, 1999 Share Posted December 19, 1999 Foobar: I could be wrong, but I think the Geforce *is* the NV10 that Nvidia has been talking about for months now. This is their new chipset, so go ahead and buy one if you want. I think I'll wait and see what the new 3DFX chip can do before I buy a new card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillWood Posted December 19, 1999 Share Posted December 19, 1999 Ok, I am considering the purchase of a GEforce card. My system is a Pentium II-350 w/ a ASUS P2B MB and 64MB PC-100 SDRAM. Will it work on this machine? Or would it be just as effective to buy a TNT2 Ultra card? I currently have a Matrox Millenium G-200 with a VooDoo2 12MB duaghtered to it. Top of the line in late 1997 terms (when I built it). All runs fine on it, I am just wondering if a new next generation video card will add some more years of life to my machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikeman Posted December 19, 1999 Share Posted December 19, 1999 I think eventually you hit a point where your CPU is the bottleneck. I upgraded from a Voodoo3 2000 to a Voodoo3 3000 and got absolutely no improvement on any benchmark tests or FPS increase in games. I'm running a K6-3 450. I suspect my CPU is the problem, and probably any of the newer cards would do nothing for me in the way of speed. Anyone know more about this? I'd get a GeForce or TNT2 for CM if I thought it would do any good. Mikemsn out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromit Posted December 19, 1999 Share Posted December 19, 1999 Mikeman: Yes, it's true that at some point in a systems life, the processor will no longer be able to push enough polygons to keep a newer video card happy. That is the beauty of the new NV10 GPU on the GeForce- it is the first card that offloads the Transforming & Lighting duties that used to be exclusively performed by the CPU. If you guys are interested, there are many sites that do excellent columns on video card technology, etc.; Gamespot (Loyd Case in particular) and Maximum PC (the old Boot magazine) provide somewhat layman's terms discussions about many technical subjects. I have been building my own machines since '93 and have learned most of what I know through periodicals like those I mentioned above. You will find that motherboards themselves are not very expensive, and the whole process of upgrading to, say a Pentium II or III can be affordable IF you have some base items with "life" left in them: a) an ATX style case/pwr supply- a must these days. memory that supports preferably 100MHz or at least 66MHz. It DOES take a "leap of faith" (or guts if you will) to build your own PC, but the only way you learn is by doing. Unlike nowadays, there were few guides to building a machine back when I started that have the breadth and depth of todays rags. GO FOR IT! It can be very frustrating at times, but I for one am not at all sorry I started down the "build your own" path. The best part is KNOWING what is on and in your computer because YOU put it there. And lets face it, unless you buy the upper end of the "Gateway"-type lines- your not going to get the performance demanded by games- period. The old adage "You get what you pay for" has never applied more than for PCs. (my .02) Paul [This message has been edited by Gromit (edited 12-19-99).] [This message has been edited by Gromit (edited 12-19-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromit Posted December 19, 1999 Share Posted December 19, 1999 Eridani: My only caution with Athlon right now is that you have to be VERY careful in choosing computer components (MB, PS, MEM, VIDEO, etc.) or it will refuse to run. Of course this is the CURRENT condition and will improve with time. There is a must read new article by Loyd Case at Gamespot on building an Athlon computer- I cannot recommend it enough. Loyd has done his homework and we all stand to benefit from it! Bottom line is: you're NOT going to be able to chuck a Athlon w/MB into your existing machine and get the reliability of an Intel BX machine; they have been around too long. But I am certain the Athlons will catch up soon and glad that there is some REAL competition in the processor world. Now if Intel would quit twisting all the motherboard makers arms that make Athlon boards, we'd be sitting pretty. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted December 19, 1999 Share Posted December 19, 1999 Ok, A thread where I can dig my teeth into Billwood, P2 350 you say hmmm You aren’t going to notice the big time speed increase with a Geforce with that system (although quality of picture will improve), it will be better but not worth the money. A better solution would be to get a Voodoo 3 for under a $100 bucks or a TNT2 Ultra. My preference is the TNT although you cant go wrong with either. I like the TNT as I have the horsepower (P3 617mhz) to run in 32bit and there IS a difference there. Ok, about the Geforce. The NV10 and Geforce are one in the same! NV10 was the development name and Geforce is the shipping name. The Geforce is an AGP video card and will run on any AGP equipped motherboard, although there have been several problems in the past with certain vendors of Athlon motherboards who did not meet the specs for the AGP slot and as such too much 'noise' on the motherboard was interfering with the AGP signal, ummm simply: it didn’t work! Currently there are two models of Geforce to choose from: STANDARD and DDR. The difference is in the memory that is used on the card itself. The DDR uses (go figure ) DDR memory which has much higher temperature threshold and can access data quicker and addresses the one, albeit negligible (I'll show why later) shortcoming of the Geforce cards. What’s that shortcoming? Well without getting too technical (and trust me I can ) the Geforce when running in resolutions GREATER than 1024x768 and 32bit color depth starts to show a bottle neck in how the memory accesses and retrieves data. What this means is that it slows down! Now these are resolutions and color depths that most gamers simply do not run games in! Sure Quake 3 and Unreal Tourney look awesome in these modes but unless you have the money to afford a 19 inch or above monitor you are wasting your time playing in such resolutions. So why did they make the DDR versions of Geforce cards if people don’t play in such high resolutions. Well FOR ME or more appropriately, people like me with the will and money to own the biggest and fastest and who already have the system components (21 inch monitor) to support this stuff. I DO like to run some games in outrageous resolutions and brag that I have the fastest and newest and I know full well that this feeling of superiority will last about 5 months until the next big thing rolls out. In fact Nvidea (makers of the Geforce chipset) already have the next generation of chip ready and have begun to send it to hardware/software OEM developers for appraisal and comments! One more comment on the DDR vs. Standard Geforce cards. Unless you want to play in HIGHER than 1024x768 you will not gain any noticeable increase in speed with the DDR board. Its not until you get into the higher realm 1280x960 and above that the DDR memory starts to strut its stuff and bury the standard Geforce card, which is no slouch in those resolutions either! Ok, a quick comment on the GPU unit and T&L capabilities of the Geforce card. One is hardware one is software. GPU is an onboard graphics processor (similar to the old Agnus chip on the Amiga, still the best designed system ever! Worst marketed too) that allows the card itself to handle much of the complex math that earlier video cards relied on the CPU to take care of, BUT you are dreaming if you think that a Pentium 90 is gonna fly with this hardware. Sure the total speed of the processor is no longer the sole cause for speed with a video card that has a GPU onboard but it is still responsible for EVERYTHING ELSE, these high end video cards are meant to work with HIGH END SYSTEMS, they were never meant to breathe life into a system who's lifecycle ended two years ago, that is just marketing hype! Transform and lighting (T&L) is a new wizbang graphics method which, put simply, enables a image to be rendered with more complexity but without all the speed decrease usually associated with such means. The Geforce is NOT the only card to support this, but it does it more efficiently than other offerings and was the first production/shipping card to do it. Directx 7 itself allows a programmer to access T&L functions already but as this is handled through software it is slower than how the Geforce does it which is through its advanced hardware. There is no magic bullet when you look to upgrade your system, shortcuts more often that not will lead to disappointment, no one ever said this hobby we have chosen to support was fair! A good video card CAN make a huge difference in a systems life and worth but you need to do your homework, look at the posted benchmarks, and more importantly look HOW they tested them, Most benchmarks use Quake 3 as a standard but they test with almost every effect including SOUND disabled! Who plays with the sound turned off?! Just be careful and read closely what people (including me ) say about a video cards or any peripheral for that matter before you lay down that cash! Hope this helps some! Madmatt out... [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 12-19-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted December 19, 1999 Share Posted December 19, 1999 Madmatt said: "I DO like to run some games in outrageous resolutions and brag that I have the fastest and newest and I know full well that this feeling of superiority will last about 5 months until the next big thing rolls out." And this would be your way of compensating for failings in exactly which other aspect of your life? DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted December 19, 1999 Share Posted December 19, 1999 Embarrasing Barrel Droop! Madmatt out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 20, 1999 Share Posted December 20, 1999 Gees Matt, barrel droop ? Let's file that under embarrassing personal secrets for news updating to CMHQ shall we? I'm going to do a review of the Else Revelator for TGN. It's a 3D card which seemingly lets you see games IN 3D (same thing as wearing 3D glasses to the movies except it seems to work better). I'll be posting a review about that to CMHQ too. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted December 20, 1999 Share Posted December 20, 1999 Hey! Whats all my dirty laundry doing out in the air where everyone can see?!? Oh no, FIONNS GONNA BE IN 3D!!! Save the children! Well I suppose I can't say that Fionns one dimensional anymore!(rimshot) Thank You Thank You, Were here all week, try the buffet! Madmatt out....but not forgotten! Matt and Fionn are appearing nightly at: combathq.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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