Documentaries featuring Bradley, M1 Abrams etc?

[Captain Black]

Can anyone recommend documentaries featuring the above or any other vehicles that are in CMBS?

Cheers

[AttorneyAtWar]

[gnarly]

That's awesome!

[Captain Black]

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

The grumpy side of my brain feels obligated to point out Pentagon Wars is a movie first and a documentary not at all.  

[AttorneyAtWar]

The grumpy side of my brain feels obligated to point out Pentagon Wars is a movie first and a documentary not at all.  

That was the joke!

Hopefully no one believed it!

Edited March 14, 2016 by Raptorx7

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

That was the joke!

Hopefully no one believed it!

That's kinda why I chipped in.  Every now and then you get folks treating it like it's gospel so I as an overly uptight person like to head that off at the pass.

It's not really a bad/wrong movie at all in regards to the whole procurement process, it's just the Bradley wasn't as cut and dry good guys vs bad guys*

*Or as an extended commentary, the questions of vehicle survival were a lot less straight forward.  There were a variety of different ideals of what the Bradley should be, with some folks advocating an almost Soviet level "everything is simple, cheap, and expendable" design philosophy, to folks who expected the Bradley to be virtually a MBT with a troop bay, along with the more middle route the vehicle ultimately took.  The folks who wanted the full Bradley shot at as part of the testing hoped more or less that it would show the sheer folly of not armoring a IFV to the point of being as tough as a tank, while the folks who did not were unsure why exploding a very expensive piece of hardware to confirm it exploded when shot by something well outmatching its armor was a good idea.

In practice they both had a point, the full scale tests allowed for some improvements to make it more likely for a crew to survive the vehicle being totally destroyed, while on the other hand it sure did verify that the Bradley was not armored to go head to head with a tank like everyone knew already, and massive heavy IFVs are still pretty dumb (see GCV).  

Take this all with the caveat it's how I remember it from stuff I've read.  It's not like I was around for the whole M2/M3 procurement mess.  

[Doc844]

Still funny as he'll though 

[Captain Black]

Back on topic, combat footage would be great as well.

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

Would gunnery footage suffice?  

[Kinophile]

massive heavy IFVs are still pretty dumb (see GCV). 

Tell that to the Israelis.  They seem pretty happy with their merkavas with troop bays. Granted, those are very much urban oriented,  but still. 

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

Tell that to the Israelis.  They seem pretty happy with their merkavas with troop bays. Granted, those are very much urban oriented,  but still. 

But riddle me this, how do they move their troops on the battlefield?  Also the Merkava's troop bay is pretty tiny, I think you're looking more at their Achzarit or some of their converted T-55 hull variants.

A large heavy MBT based IFV makes a lot of sense if you've got a urban AO and that is your primary focus.  A lot of the logistical constraints go out the window if you're not looking at road marching, or maneuvering a large unit across a battlespace.  However if those constraints are still in play, and you have to worry about deploying across oceans, a 70 ton IFV becomes entirely impractical and would require a massive increase in the logistics train for an ABCT type formation. 

So to clarify my previous position, a heavy IFV/APC as the main troop transport of your military is not the best idea.  Having them for a narrower mission might not be.  Having troop capacity on a tank is something I'll still eyeroll at unless that space and that hatch was going to be there anyway.    

Anyway.  I'll see if I can't get some of my old shaky cam stuff from my tablet uploaded.  It's just gunnery and live fire footage, but it's M1A2 SEP v2s, some M2A3s and maybe some AH-64s.  

Edited March 14, 2016 by panzersaurkrautwerfer
For relevance

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

Doublepost for a cause:

Here's some random videos of:

D Co 2-9 IN 1 ABCT 2 ID doing it's Table XII platoon level live fires with accompanying Apaches
Some videos from Tankfest 2015 at the Flying Heritage Collection
Our family hedgehog at maximum armor mode.  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp8ol1Y1QcAJuhn4GlYgD3A/videos?sort=dd&shelf_id=0&view=0

Here's some footage from one of the tank crewmen featured in the Table XII shoots I posted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hbXnlVE1AA

I lied as far as the M2A3s, I took that footage on my very dead iphone, may pull the memory card one of these days though.

[AttorneyAtWar]

Doublepost for a cause:

Here's some random videos of:

D Co 2-9 IN 1 ABCT 2 ID doing it's Table XII platoon level live fires with accompanying Apaches
Some videos from Tankfest 2015 at the Flying Heritage Collection
Our family hedgehog at maximum armor mode.  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp8ol1Y1QcAJuhn4GlYgD3A/videos?sort=dd&shelf_id=0&view=0

Here's some footage from one of the tank crewmen featured in the Table XII shoots I posted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hbXnlVE1AA

I lied as far as the M2A3s, I took that footage on my very dead iphone, may pull the memory card one of these days though.

WHO CARES ABOUT THE TANKS, DID YOU SEE THAT HEDGEHOG?!?

That thing will take a refleks and knock it right back at the T-90 who fired at it.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Raptorx7

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

His names is Truffles.  You will learn to fear him.  

[Baneman]

His names is Truffles.  You will learn to fear him.  

I noticed "the hand" didn't stick around...

[Jotte]

His names is Truffles.  You will learn to fear him.  

Omg! He has spaced armor AND reactive spines! He's practicly invincible!!111oneoneone

 

In the Table XII on line vid the 50 sound is for some reason more menacing to me then the 120 mm, though I know the main guns dont exactly  sound wussy in real life. 

Edited March 15, 2016 by TJT

[Kinophile]

But riddle me this, how do they move their troops on the battlefield?  Also the Merkava's troop bay is pretty tiny, I think you're looking more at their Achzarit or some of their converted T-55 hull variants.

A large heavy MBT based IFV makes a lot of sense if you've got a urban AO and that is your primary focus.  A lot of the logistical constraints go out the window if you're not looking at road marching, or maneuvering a large unit across a battlespace.  However if those constraints are still in play, and you have to worry about deploying across oceans, a 70 ton IFV becomes entirely impractical and would require a massive increase in the logistics train for an ABCT type formation. 

 

Correct,  yes I meant their repurposed/converted merkava (2s?).

As you mention,  absolutely yes,  its a workable solution due to the short operational distance,  part if the IDFs longterm ficus on attrition as opposed to maneuver war.

I wonder,  if they did suddenly have go switch to large scale maneuver,  would they have a serious problem with mech Inf flexibility. Their current IFVs are very survivable,  but perhaps less flexible. Contrast that with the  older,  current Russian IFVs that are flexible but brittle. I guess the Bradley hits a reasonable sweet spot?

[panzersaurkrautwerfer]

Omg! He has spaced armor AND reactive spines! He's practicly invincible!!111oneoneone

 

In the Table XII on line vid the 50 sound is for some reason more menacing to me then the 120 mm, though I know the main guns dont exactly  sound wussy in real life. 

Truffles is a mighty warrior*

Re: .50 cal

I think of it this way, there's a lot that's "loud" vs "louder" but the actual perception once something is very loud is fairly limited.  Mortars landing also sounds about spot on for someone dropping a trashcan off of a second story balcony.  The real difference I contend between "loud" and "massively loud" is how it feels and with that the M2 sounds quite loud, while the the 120 MM if you're within a certain distance of it (mostly towards the front, like you're 90 degrees to the muzzle), feels disconcertingly like someone is shoving your spine from the front).    

Could be just me though. 

 

Correct,  yes I meant their repurposed/converted merkava (2s?).

As you mention,  absolutely yes,  its a workable solution due to the short operational distance,  part if the IDFs longterm ficus on attrition as opposed to maneuver war.

I wonder,  if they did suddenly have go switch to large scale maneuver,  would they have a serious problem with mech Inf flexibility. Their current IFVs are very survivable,  but perhaps less flexible. Contrast that with the  older,  current Russian IFVs that are flexible but brittle. I guess the Bradley hits a reasonable sweet spot?

Last I checked Israel still has several thousand M113s they use for their anything but urban operations APCs.  More likely than not they'd just rely more on supporting armor than US/Russian formations do for fire support (which is to say, all of them use tanks extensively, but the Israeli mech infantry platoon would need perhaps direct armor support in full spectrum conflict while a US/RU formation might retain the armor at a company-battalion level).

But that rather gets back to my original point, the "heavy is better" crowd wanted an MBT level IFV as the primary infantry carrier for US forces in 1979 and the GCV was supposed to replace all Bradley vehicles despite weighing in at 70+ tons.  None of these are especially workable.  

*he's actually undercut by the fact virtually everything he does that's supposed to be intimidating is sort of precious.  Even when he growls when the dog passes his cage it's just a tiny little rrrrrr noise.  

[Captain Black]

Would gunnery footage suffice?  

Yep, anything really

[AttorneyAtWar]

Yep, anything really

The abrams gives no *%&$#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVJqBSr_FEs

Just search M1 Abrams on Youtube, there's a bunch of stuff ranging from exercises to the war in Yemen, although with the Yemen thing chances are you'll be seeing a few getting knocked out.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Raptorx7

[Captain Black]

Doublepost for a cause:

Here's some random videos of:

D Co 2-9 IN 1 ABCT 2 ID doing it's Table XII platoon level live fires with accompanying Apaches
Some videos from Tankfest 2015 at the Flying Heritage Collection
Our family hedgehog at maximum armor mode.  

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCp8ol1Y1QcAJuhn4GlYgD3A/videos?sort=dd&shelf_id=0&view=0

Here's some footage from one of the tank crewmen featured in the Table XII shoots I posted

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hbXnlVE1AA

I lied as far as the M2A3s, I took that footage on my very dead iphone, may pull the memory card one of these days though.

Epic, many thanks

[Captain Black]

The abrams gives no *%&$#

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVJqBSr_FEs

Just search M1 Abrams on Youtube, there's a bunch of stuff ranging from exercises to the war in Yemen, although with the Yemen thing chances are you'll be seeing a few getting knocked out.

Many thanks Raptor