Thom Posted December 8, 1999 Share Posted December 8, 1999 I play now the beta version for a while and I cannot explain what embarass me in this excellent game. When I finally discover: we are fighting in american middle western lanscape! In fact the most disturbing is the village/small town with the white wooden church! I defy anyone to find in western europe any white wooden church! They are in general in stone and sometimes in bricks ore even in concrete (but not before the second half of the century). Moreover, most of the building are on those materials appart for stables and forage housing. Are those landscape only for the development of the beta version or do we gonna fight in Walnut's Grove in the final version (In which case I hope we could shot down Laura Ingalls!) Thom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 8, 1999 Share Posted December 8, 1999 Well, if you want a stone church it's a simple job in a paintshop program. I think lots of people will be doing graphical mods for CM once its released. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aacooper Posted December 9, 1999 Share Posted December 9, 1999 Isn't there a functional difference between a stone and a wooden building? If the vast majority of churches are stone, they ought to function like stone. I've never been the countries where CM took place, but if Europeans say so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Foobar Posted December 9, 1999 Share Posted December 9, 1999 There is at least one stone church modeled already. Use that one. But I'm glad to hear that we can alter the "skins" of the buildings. Im gonna make a transylvanian village or something... Can I make a squad of werewolves or zombies (filed under totally unrealistic scenarios) ------------------ "when in doubt, run in circles" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 9, 1999 Share Posted December 9, 1999 Ah, Thom... that chuch in the demo is very clearly *stone*. Take a look at it more closely. I can tell you, there are no chuches like that in the US that I have every seen! If a traditional chuch is made out of something OTHER than wood, it is red brick and less often natural stone. Of course churches in more arid sections of the US are more towards adobe brick or something else more local. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted December 10, 1999 Author Share Posted December 10, 1999 Ok, Ok, I used cliché about churchs in USA. But the one in the demo really doesn't look like western european one. I may appeared a little bit maniac to focus on the churh, but it is a REALLY important geographic feature for country of our old continent. When you drive toward a small town or a village this is the first thing you see (and the first thing artillery shot at during both world wars!). It is a good news we can "skin" building at will.I have a few idea: Do you notice, from picture of the period, that during the WWII a lot of house in french village and town are painted with alcohol adverts (I mean Suze, Pernod, various wine, etc...)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIX Posted December 10, 1999 Share Posted December 10, 1999 In Chance Encounter I have seen buildings reduced to rubble. I'm wondering if you have troops in a building thats destroyed do they all perish? Or is there a possibility some will survive? Also, is there much difference between a tank firing at a stone vs a wood building? Does it take more direct hits to destroy a stone building? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donan Posted December 10, 1999 Share Posted December 10, 1999 Re: churches destroyed and injuries do occur. I speak from experience: In one particular scenario I was making myself a pain to my opponent and he kept pounding away at a church until it collapsed. All those within took hits. Some died outright.' Bummer Donald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hough Posted December 10, 1999 Share Posted December 10, 1999 It takes considerably more hits to destroy stone buildings, and larger buldings take more hits as well. Everything on the bottom floor takes some amount of damage, and I think everybody on the top floor of a building gets killed immediately when it's destroyed. If you hang around in the rubble in the demo, there's also a chance that your guys will get sent to the twilight zone, but apparently that's been fixed. -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted December 10, 1999 Share Posted December 10, 1999 Thom, churches are difficult to make look "European", because there is so many different styles. Don't forget that CM is covering France (where I personally have seen a lot of white stone churches similar to the CM one), Belgium, Holland, Luxemburg and (parts of) Germany. Since there can't be different graphics for all different types (gothic, roman etc.), one has to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrodi Posted December 10, 1999 Share Posted December 10, 1999 Yes, I noticed that too Thom. Also I think we have a case of Streichholzhäuser in the construction of the churches if not the houses. Surely the French can’t suffer from it so. As an aside, if you want to see a German slack jawed in amazment, bring him so a modern North American suburb to watch a house go up: “Mein Gott, eswird nie halten!!” In fact, I’ve see a Frenchman do this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supertanker Posted December 12, 1999 Share Posted December 12, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>As an aside, if you want to see a German slack jawed in amazment, bring him so a modern North American suburb to watch a house go up: “Mein Gott, eswird nie halten!!” In fact, I’ve see a Frenchman do this too.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This is fairly off-topic, but I feel compelled to share this story. I've lived in California most of my life, and we still have contact with the relatives back in Germany (my great-grandfather emigrated to the USA, so it has been a while). Some of them were visiting a few years ago, and we were talking about housing. They were noting the apparently flimsy construction of many of the houses around here, as the family home in Germany is literally hundreds of years old. I pointed out that in an earthquake area, a wood-framed ranch-style home is by far a better place to be than a masonry structure. Wood-framed buildings just wobble back and forth a bit in a quake (but don't put a tile roof on, because its can contribute to a total collapse if its bulk moves too far to one side). Masonry, on the other hand, cannot flex, so it cracks and breaks. We even have a term for the real deathtraps: URMs (UnReinforced Masonry). As that term implies, there are methods for reinforcing masonry buildings to keep them from falling down on your head, but they are mostly a stop-gap. When we had the Northridge quake a few years ago, it was very common to see wood-framed homes where the house was fine except for the brick chimney, which had cracked to pieces and fallen away from the house. We are constantly reminded of the need to prepare. As you can see at this link, Los Angeles has had 43 earthquakes in the past week (though I only felt one of them): http://www.scecdc.scec.org/recenteqs/Maps/Los_Angeles.html [This message has been edited by Supertanker (edited 12-11-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted December 12, 1999 Author Share Posted December 12, 1999 Earthquake are far less frequent in western europe (since about 5000 years!). This is maybe the reason why we find very few wooden house. Other reason, at least in France, is the lack of reliable wood (during the past century wood was reserved for ships) and now there is not enought trees to develop a real log industry. It exist great pine forest which covered a large part of south-western France, but it was used mainly for the resin. Few attempts have been made to develop log house in this area, but cultural prejudice were strongers. Maybe we go a little far from the original topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted December 13, 1999 Share Posted December 13, 1999 Hehehe Chance encounter, i'm playing the germans, PBEM game, by the 2nd (or 3rd) turn i have like 5 squads in the big church, by 4th or 5th turn i have couple MG's in there too, he brings 3 shermans to bear on that church, it collapses and only 6 men walk away from it, from 5 squads and 2 mg's. Can you say "don't bunch your troops up"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted December 13, 1999 Share Posted December 13, 1999 I stopped firing at the church with my tanks the turn I assaulted it with my American infantry because I was afraid I would bring the church down on my own troops. Imust have pumped over 30 rounds into the church and it couldn't have been in very good shape. I sure would have felt like an idiot if I had brought the church down on my own troops. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrodi Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Interesting post Supertanker, but, almost all houses in modern suburbs are built this flimsy way in NA, the majority of them being in areas as earthquake free as western Europe. And in fact, the area the I experienced this was just so. I think more often than not, it’s just plain luck that those houses are earthquake resistant in California so it’s a good idea to continue it there as it continues for other reasons everywhere else-cheepness being the driving force. Of course, the ranch style house it effective in this respect. This has more to do with the architectural fashion at the time of the boomer expansion in California-the ranch style of Frank Lloyd Wright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durutti Posted December 17, 1999 Share Posted December 17, 1999 Must admit when I first saw the church I thought it was white painted wood plank but on looking at it closer, saw it was stone. I take the point about texture mods but that won't alter the shape. Its the dinky little spire that makes it look 'un-european' to many people I think. OK maybe just cosmetic but it would be a nice atmospheric touch to have a few different churches to choose from. I would take a guess that the most popular campaigns in CM will be Normandy, Bulge and Market Garden? So how about just a generic example of architecture from each? How about a church with a big solid Norman style tower like a castle's (with the typical pointy roof on top perhaps)? Just a suggestion. Great game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thom Posted December 17, 1999 Author Share Posted December 17, 1999 you translate exacly my mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durutti Posted December 18, 1999 Share Posted December 18, 1999 On the subject of buildings, can you butt houses together into terraced rows like so many european inner-cities have? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted December 18, 1999 Share Posted December 18, 1999 I must agree with Schrodi here, most houses inthe united states are poorly built, in the south is even more evident as many places have only just incorporated the use of building codes within the last 10 - 20 years, there are still some areas that dont use them at all. Many places have building codes but the enforcement of them is severely lacking. SS_PanzerLeader..out [This message has been edited by SS_PanzerLeader (edited 12-17-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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