How to "mark" mines?

[exsonic01]

I think my engineer squad is definitely right in front of the mine zone, but the "mark mines" button is not activating at all. 

 

Should I walk in the mine zone with "move" command? Or should I need to crawl around with "slow" command? Or should I just keep them stand still for 2~3 minutes until find something? 

 

How can I 'mark' mines and let my vehicles move clear? 

 

Thanks 

[Mastiff]

I also would like to know because the engineers keep blowing themselves up with this one.

[womble]

Just leave them there until they "see" the mines. Should be within a couple of minutes, as you say. If the mine square you want to Mark is already revealed, then one of three possibilities applies, I think:

1. You're not actually adjacent to it. It can be hard to estimate in some terrains.
2. All the "Engineer" specialists (as listed in the bottom left corner of the screen) have become casualties.
3. I'm inferring that you've discovered the mines using vehicles: it's possible that they've detonated all the mines that can be cleared in that square, so there's nothing left to Mark. Since "Mark mines" does what it says (rather than removing them), it's actually not possible to create a "safer" path through a square that has anti-vehicle mines, either, using the Mark Mines command, since the vehicle cannot daintily pick its way along a narrow, winding, 1m wide 'path' as marked by the sappers. On the "bright" side, if all the AVMs have been detonated, the sign will still go green; it's possible that the sign is obscured by a vehicle so you can't see it.

If you're going to move into an unmarked mine square, I'd recommend Slow over Move (or any mode), personally. You still have a high chance of setting of little presents though, so I'd recommend not going in in the first place.

 

As mentioned in point 3: Mark Mines doesn't help with vehicles and anti-vehicle mines. It is only useful for anti-personnel mines.

Edited April 18, 2015 by womble

[exsonic01]

Thanks for the clear answers. 

[womble]

You're welcome.

[H1nd]

Wooot! So we have no way to deal with AT mines to get vehicles through? I always asumed that marking mines would work on them as well. I even had a rather large scenario in the oven where attacker would have to deal with realistic sized minefields.. I guess it will just have to wait untill we get the engineer vehicles in cmbs.

[womble]

Or put a Flail tank in, from the CM:BN vehicle pack... Did flail tanks ever operate on the OstFront? I don't think so; it was hard enough convincing the Americans that the Funnies were a good idea, let alone "those paranoid russkies"

[H1nd]

Naah russians had their own roller tanks in bagration but i was talking about the modern day engineer tanks that are plenty in ukr us and rus arsenals.

[H1nd]

On a side note even a ww2 flail sherman would do if there was a way to frankenmod it into cmbs.

[womble]

Naah russians had their own roller tanks in bagration but i was talking about the modern day engineer tanks that are plenty in ukr us and rus arsenals.

Aye. Rollers seem to make some more sense... Lots less moving parts to have to worry about. And I was mistakenly thinking this thread was in the RT forum...

[H1nd]

Awww.. just ran some tests and indeed the marking does not help at all with vehicles. Which really is bad since mines are relatively cheap in QB so it is possible to entirely block many routes and the opponent will have no means to do anything about it. As a combat engineer in real life I would love to use em but it makes no sense if the opponent has no way to counter them. Precision arty might help to solve the problem as a stop gap measure but honestly BS needs them engineering vehicles with the next module if not sooner.

[Apocal]

Awww.. just ran some tests and indeed the marking does not help at all with vehicles. Which really is bad since mines are relatively cheap in QB so it is possible to entirely block many routes and the opponent will have no means to do anything about it. As a combat engineer in real life I would love to use em but it makes no sense if the opponent has no way to counter them. Precision arty might help to solve the problem as a stop gap measure but honestly BS needs them engineering vehicles with the next module if not sooner.

 

Send vehicles on a different route. Nothing unrealistic about using a minefield to limit the attacker's options and channelize them.

[H1nd]

Aaand even precision artillery is not of help.. It takes several 3 round strikes to clear one or two mined action squares. Argh

[H1nd]

Send vehicles on a different route. Nothing unrealistic about using a minefield to limit the attacker's options and channelize them.

 

It is unrealistic when it is possible on certain maps to easily block 100% of all vehicle accessible routes. And no this is not whining because somebody did this to me but rather I was planning on doing this my self!  Sure I can restrict myself from doing so but that goes against all my rl training on light infantry tactics vs mechanized opponent. It calls for extensive mining of all possible avenues of enemy approach, then utilizing any available at and artillery assets to eliminate the enemy. Ofc there is plenty of other play styles left but in my opinion this is very bad oversight from battlefronts side. Even without engineering vehicles, regular engineers should be able to do something to allow friendly vehicles pass through.

[womble]

It is unrealistic when it is possible on certain maps to easily block 100% of all vehicle accessible routes. And no this is not whining because somebody did this to me but rather I was planning on doing this my self!  Sure I can restrict myself from doing so but that goes against all my rl training on light infantry tactics vs mechanized opponent. It calls for extensive mining of all possible avenues of enemy approach, then utilizing any available at and artillery assets to eliminate the enemy. Ofc there is plenty of other play styles left but in my opinion this is very bad oversight from battlefronts side. Even without engineering vehicles, regular engineers should be able to do something to allow friendly vehicles pass through.

Why? Is it feasible to disarm/remove AT mines while in a contact? Yes, engineering vehicles could with their ploughs and rollers, and that will no doubt come in the module. But for now, there isn't one within shouting distance, so if a unit finds its way totally blocked by mines it has to withdraw from contact and find another location (read: CM scenario) where the place isn't mined all to hell. "Find another way round" comes at all levels. Perhaps the "proper minefield" scenario should wait til those engineering vehicles are introduced to the game.

[H1nd]

Why? Is it feasible to disarm/remove AT mines while in a contact? Yes, engineering vehicles could with their ploughs and rollers, and that will no doubt come in the module. But for now, there isn't one within shouting distance, so if a unit finds its way totally blocked by mines it has to withdraw from contact and find another location (read: CM scenario) where the place isn't mined all to hell. "Find another way round" comes at all levels. Perhaps the "proper minefield" scenario should wait til those engineering vehicles are introduced to the game.

 

Ehm.. well yes this is all just what I said in earlier replies. 

[Apocal]

It is unrealistic when it is possible on certain maps to easily block 100% of all vehicle accessible routes. And no this is not whining because somebody did this to me but rather I was planning on doing this my self!  Sure I can restrict myself from doing so but that goes against all my rl training on light infantry tactics vs mechanized opponent. It calls for extensive mining of all possible avenues of enemy approach, then utilizing any available at and artillery assets to eliminate the enemy. Ofc there is plenty of other play styles left but in my opinion this is very bad oversight from battlefronts side. Even without engineering vehicles, regular engineers should be able to do something to allow friendly vehicles pass through.

 

Oh, OK, 100% of the routes blocked? Yeah, that is a bit ridiculous, unless you're talking about one of those scenarios with a single good vehicle route.

 

Why? Is it feasible to disarm/remove AT mines while in a contact? Yes, engineering vehicles could with their ploughs and rollers, and that will no doubt come in the module. But for now, there isn't one within shouting distance, so if a unit finds its way totally blocked by mines it has to withdraw from contact and find another location (read: CM scenario) where the place isn't mined all to hell. "Find another way round" comes at all levels. Perhaps the "proper minefield" scenario should wait til those engineering vehicles are introduced to the game.

 

The QB problem remains though.

[The Warrior]

Oh great. Now we need these.

[womble]

The QB problem remains though.

Are mines really so cheap you can block every avenue? Did they not get bumped up in price to match the inflated (for good reason) prices of other equipment? Though you'd only be missing out on one game, cos the sensible reaction is to ask your opponent not to do that again until the engineering vehicles become an option. Maybe two games, when you realise he lied when he agreed, and you stop playing him.

 

Ehm.. well yes this is all just what I said in earlier replies. 

Sorry, there must be a language problem here. You think there should be some way for engineers in game to clear AT mines without special equipment, in the environment of the CM battlefield. I do not, because I don't think it's a job that would be done by hand, under fire, in real life.

[Apocal]

Are mines really so cheap you can block every avenue? Did they not get bumped up in price to match the inflated (for good reason) prices of other equipment?

 

It depends on the number of avenues; some maps have sort of terrain "bridges" to which vehicles are restricted. And AT mines are 250 points for a Huge Assault in CMBS, 250 points for a Medium Attack in Red Thunder and 250 points for a Tiny ME in CMBN, no inflation whatsoever.

[H1nd]

Sorry, there must be a language problem here. You think there should be some way for engineers in game to clear AT mines without special equipment, in the environment of the CM battlefield. I do not, because I don't think it's a job that would be done by hand, under fire, in real life.

 

yes there is a bit of a language problem and slight sleep deprivation on my part since was working on night shift last couple of night But yes, I think regular engineers would need some love and iteration in the future. There are plenty of things that real engineers can do to minefields, especially at-mines, even under fire. For example finnish army engineers still regularly train to use manual explosive mine clearance devices similar to ww2 bangalore torpedos. Now this is ofc vintage stuff and naturally it can't be done under enemy observation and active fire, but it is certainly expected to be done the moment enemy is suppressed to some reasonable degree. The whole idea behind engineer corps is to enhance friendly movement during attack and hinder enemy movement during defence. Maybe this subject would deserve a bit more constructed and focused separate thread all together.

 

My overall opinion on QB prices is that mines are very very expensive compared to their real life value and expense. For a price of single MBT you can sow thousands of regular "dumb" tnt based at-mines and this is certainly not the case in CMBS at the moment. Obviously for good reason since we cant clear them and they are more effective than in real life. For a large QB for example it is very much possible to to reserve 2000 or even 3000 points for at-mines and you can create several mine fields of 200-300m wide and few action squares deep. This is often able to block many if not all vehicle accessible routes depending on how rough the map is.

[womble]

It depends on the number of avenues; some maps have sort of terrain "bridges" to which vehicles are restricted. And AT mines are 250 points for a Huge Assault in CMBS, 250 points for a Medium Attack in Red Thunder and 250 points for a Tiny ME in CMBN, no inflation whatsoever.

Not increasing the cost of the mines (unless they don't have any increase in effect, which should mean heavy modern AFVs should be able to ride over them, maybe? ) is something of an error, I'd say. Still, if a QB opponent thinks saturating the map with mines is the way to go, and persists in that thinking when the issue is raised, perhaps it's time to think about looking for another opponent.

[A Canadian Cat]

Not increasing the cost of the mines (unless they don't have any increase in effect, which should mean heavy modern AFVs should be able to ride over them, maybe? ) is something of an error, I'd say. Still, if a QB opponent thinks saturating the map with mines is the way to go, and persists in that thinking when the issue is raised, perhaps it's time to think about looking for another opponent.

 

Or go a different way and go to battle with a handful air controllers and a bunch of UAVs, 15xmm artilery and attack helicopters.  Rock paper scissors the guy.  Use the UAVs to find out where his men are and kill them with air support and artillery.  Never bother crossing the mine fields.

[H1nd]

Or go a different way and go to battle with a handful air controllers and a bunch of UAVs, 15xmm artilery and attack helicopters.  Rock paper scissors the guy.  Use the UAVs to find out where his men are and kill them with air support and artillery.  Never bother crossing the mine fields.

 

Most people seem pretty pedant about bringing at least single tunguska to eliminate UAVs. I know I do Usually there simply is no reason not to bring one since they are very cheap considering that they double in anti-infantry role as well. 

[Apocal]

Most people seem pretty pedant about bringing at least single tunguska to eliminate UAVs. I know I do Usually there simply is no reason not to bring one since they are very cheap considering that they double in anti-infantry role as well. 

 

Tunguska can't hit a Predator on Observe. Nothing in-game can.