Re Smoke Grenades

[tankski]

I recently played a Quick in which I put my regiment of T-34 Model 1942s in a tight spot, and they were annihilated by some happy Pz IVG Lates. Before the situation spun out of control, I popped up my T-34 commanders in hope I could order them to chuck smoke grenades in the direction of the Germans, but, to my disappointment, this was not possible. My disappointment was small compared to my T-34s'.

A year ago I read the excellent "Panzer Destroyer: Memoirs of a Red Army Tank Commander" by Vasily Krysov (Pen & Sword, 2010). The author commanded Su-122s and T-34s. Always he kept a pile of smoke grenades ready to throw in case his vehicle was caught in a killing zone. The vehicles under his command did likewise. Gauging from the book, this was Red Army SOP.

Please give the Sov crews smoke grenades. Otherwise, getting caught in a killing zone is a party for the Germans.

P.S. "Red Thunder" and 3.0 "Normandy" are gems. I am delighted to have first echelon designs on my Mac. I am through with years of fighting the perversity of Windows.

[Blazing 88's]

...I am delighted to have first echelon designs on my Mac. I am through with years of fighting the perversity of Windows.

LOL.......

[BLSTK]

Welcome to The Dark Side, tankski.

[Michael Emrys]

Hey! I always thought that we were the Good Guys!

:mad:

Michael

[sburke]

P.S. "Red Thunder" and 3.0 "Normandy" are gems. I am delighted to have first echelon designs on my Mac. I am through with years of fighting the perversity of Windows.

Don't Bash windows....

For all it's perversity, I 'd rather it than those arrogant pukes at Apple.

[tankski]

Sov must get smoke grenades for tank commanders, otherwise no way to get out of a killing zone.

Help Battlefront!

[poesel]

Don't Bash windows....

Ha - Windows would love to have bash!

Well, at least the current version...

[Bulletpoint]

I don't object to your suggestion, but I wonder if you would have time (in this game) to get your crew out of the tank, throw smoke, and then wait for the smoke to deploy, if you are caught in a killing zone.

Using WeGo at least, I would imagine this to be a lengthy procedure.

[tankski]

I use real time. Popping up the commanders and lobbing grenades could be done very fast by using a box and two or three clicks for the entire unit. At the very least, the smoke grenades might prevent the complete annailiation of the armored unit. True, even British 75mm Shermans, which have smoke mortars and smoke shells, usually get wiped out if they are ambushed by something very nasty, like Panthers. I would like the capability just in case the German doesn't have the numbers to instantly wipe out the Sov armor. The Sov needs something to protect himself in an ambush. Since this was a real capability, it should be in the system.

[slysniper]

I don't object to your suggestion, but I wonder if you would have time (in this game) to get your crew out of the tank, throw smoke, and then wait for the smoke to deploy, if you are caught in a killing zone.

Using WeGo at least, I would imagine this to be a lengthy procedure.

I think what he is envisioning is that if a Russian tank is unbutton or is a open top tank, that they should have the abilty to pop smoke. Representing hand thrown grenades.

I find it a interesting concept and it would make sence if the crews actually have smoke grenades. Concidering the fact that seldom has anyone represented Russia with smoke in their munitions, even in infantry units. I wonder where all these smoke grenades were available from since it was not manufactured in any large quintities there. I doubt lend-lease was providing it, since they had a hard time providing enough for their own troops.

So first it would need to be shown that smoke grenades was part of a tanker typical load

[Blazing 88's]

...Since this was a real capability, it should be in the system.

The German's firing their 88's unlimbered was a real capability and should be in the system then as well… See where I am going with this?

Just have some of the Ruskies lighter tanks driving along with you, when they get brewed up, instant smokes screens.

[Michael Emrys]

The German's firing their 88's unlimbered was a real capability...

I think you mean 'limbered' perhaps? Of course they could fire unlimbered; they do so already.

Michael

[tankski]

See Krysov's book. All the Sov tank units with which he operated used smoke grenades.

[Blazing 88's]

I think you mean 'limbered' perhaps? Of course they could fire unlimbered; they do so already.

Michael

Yes a typo, sorry.

[slysniper]

See Krysov's book. All the Sov tank units with which he operated used smoke grenades.

YES, I AM NOT SAYING THEY DID NOT HAVE THEM.

It appears the Russians made two types of smoke grenades, one being the

RDG1

But the hand thrown type of smoke grenade is of extremely limited value as a screening system.

It produces only a brief cloud of smoke and is extremely vulnerable to weather and in particular wind. For the most part such grenades are primarily used as target markers or signaling devices rather than for screening.

When screeing was required it was normal for just about every nation to use smoke pots, smoke generators, or massed artillery fire (hence the German adoption of the Nebelwerfer for this purpose as one example).

But the question is, was it a standard issued item to Russian tankers and was it successful to be used in the method you think it was being applied.

Maybe for the unit you read about it was a practice. But for the Russian army as a whole it likely is not a standard issued item. Then how sucessful was it.

Thus a interesting question you have brought up.

Within the game, I have had infantry adjacent to a tank pop their smoke grenades to try and help provide a screen for the tank. Normally has not worked for the fact that the tank is hit a few times before the smoke developes enough to act as a screen.

Now just to show you how the game works. I find a great tactic for the Russian tanks is , if they need a smoke screen and are not going to engage the enemy. Just fire HE rounds into the ground where you want the screen. The dirt and dust will do a good job as a temporary screen and it happens quickly. It will provide as much or better help than what you are hoping for having the tanks able to use infantry smoke.

[tankski]

Since thrown smoke grenades were used by Su-122 and T-34 units, not just one particular unit, I think the designers ought to give this a look because the Sovs need every little bit of help they can get, especially when there are no mortars or artillery to provide smoke.

I can imagine the trouble a regimental commander would have explaining to his Commissar the deliberate use of HE shells to create a dust cloud. He would probably get time in a penal battalion. This is a "game world" solution!