Guest Big Time Software Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 I got my first new computer in 2 years today. Brand new Macintosh G4 @ 400MHz. It is simply amazing! For you PCers out there, it is roughly like a P3 @ 600MHz in some ways, way faster in others (floating point, which we use a LOT of). Up until now I have been using a 604e @ 210 MHz (roughly a P2 266, except for floating point again). The game I have been testing went from 20 seconds for a turn to process to under 3 There were some things that happened so fast I couldn't even count miliseconds! Frame rate is, uhm, stunning. It is using an older ATI card (which is a massive bottle neck), and I am getting between 35 and 110 fps Average is around 60fps. I thought the game looked great at far less than that, but the extra speed certainly is cool. I also get more sound channels than I used to. Anyways, I am finally done moving the bulk of my work over to the new machine, so time for bed! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerShark Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Well Steve, i'm really happy for you, except for the sleeping part...sorry my friend, won't happen. Not until we have the demo Just kidding. Sleep tight (not too long though) PanzerShark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Sounds like you need to increase the polygon count dramatically if you're getting such high framerates. You must also realize the danger you pose to the 3d motion challenged who will lose their lunch from such framerate-induced trauma. How long will this new machine stay amazing and wonderful before it gets labeled "POS" that needs replacing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoop88 Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Steve: I am SO JEALOUS. I have a G4 on order and can't wait to get it. (With any luck I'll get the 450 Mhz processor instead of the 400 ... you've probably read all about that flap!) Everything I've heard about the G4 is that it's a fantastic machine. Now I'm glad to hear from a user such as you. Have fun! If I get a 450 Mhz I'll let you know how it runs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Nothing against MAC, but why not INTEL or AMD? 1) G4 cost is $2,200 2) Intel PIII 450 (overclocked to 540 Mhz), w/128 MB Ram, 18 GB & GeForce 32 MB Rocket Video Card is about $1,200. Save a thousand dollars and buy 30 software titles. Add a world class IIYama 19" monitor for $540. 3) In 12 months, keep the IBM-Compatible spend $325 and get an 800 Mhz processor and spend $300 and get new world class video card. Toss the G4 and pay thousands for a G5. Why has the entire world not caught on to this simple formula? Just a slam on MAC. Sorry about the slam. I just researched MAC upgrades and they look reasonable. Sincerely, Richard Kalajian [This message has been edited by kingtiger (edited 10-26-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Agreed KingTiger. My last upgrade from a Pentium 200, 96 MB RAM, venerable SoundBlaster 16 was to a dual Celeron 366, overlocked to dual 550, 256 MB RAM, and SoundBlaster Live w/Environmental Audio. Total cash outlay ~ $550. And the spare parts with another $120 became the Linux server at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Please, lets not turn this into a Mac-PC flame war. This forum has been very civil. Kingtiger, I think you should do a little research before you start throwing around numbers like that. Upgrading a Mac is just as easy as it is a PC... Both systems have there good and bad points, it really depends on what all you're looking for in a machine. It's not nearly as cut and dried as you're trying to make it. If you want to talk about it, please keep it to e-mail though. [This message has been edited by Ben Galanti (edited 10-26-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Ben, Yes you are right. I surfed and I saw. Mac has many upgrades. Richard Kalajian [This message has been edited by kingtiger (edited 10-26-99).] [This message has been edited by kingtiger (edited 10-26-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Weeeeeelll, why not talk about mac vs PC? Nobody has to get flamed. I am not a rabid fan of either side. I have a PC because it is the dominant platform, not because I think it is a better system. Truth be known I would rather the Commodore hadn't dicked up the Amiga. I stay with a PC because every piece of software I want comes for the PC and I don't have to be left out like so many Mac fans. Anyway, my IMPRESSIONS of Mac vs PC (I have to qualify this in that I haven't used a mac in several years).... Mac: complete machine out of the box, more expensive, dedicated, fanatical user base, software works because variations amongst Macs are minimal. OS is one system. PC: do it yourself PC customizeable in a million different way that has problems with software because of all the myriad configurations and manufacturers(not to mention OSs and poor OS design). Classic example of this phenomenon: friend purchases Star TreK 25th anniversary from Interplay. Runs fine on his Packard Bell edsel box until after 20 minutes the mouse pointer moves to the top of the screen and stays there. Interplay's first question when he called the help line "do you have a packard bell PC." Friend says yes. Interplay says get a MS mouse. PB used some proprietary architecture that didn't work right with the game. Interplay said they were unable to test the game with every possible configuration (back then there were around 270 manufacturers of PCs I think there are more now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Well, one thing to be said for Macs is that CM is being made on them SO I'm glad Macs are around simply for that reason. One other thing is that Windows has recently been annoying me to hell and back with its tendency to suddenly stop working in portions. e.g. My CD drive was NEVER able to play music CDs but now if one is put in without ANYTHING else being done my entire computer locks up and I have to reboot. There's no valid reason for this occuring its just Chairman Bill's "Little black box of horrors" (otherwise known as an OS) that makes it so. If Macs were more prevalent and software more available I'd prefer them but as it is... ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoop88 Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Dear PC fans: All I can say is the same thing we've been telling each other about Oscar vs. the world: Don't slam anything until you've tried it. My current Mac also has a built-in PC processor. You can toggle back and forth from Mac to Windows by hitting command and return keys at the same time. So I use both operating systems. My personal opinion is that Windows is just a poor copy of a Mac. It's very clunky, and all that stuff about you need this card and that card doesn't even apply to a Mac. You just install the software and off you go. Downside is there is far more software available for Windows. PCs are cheaper, too, but think of all the money the world had saved on being Y2K compliant if everybody had a Mac, which has been completely Y2K compliant since the day the Mac was born. And the stuff about PCs being cheaper isn't so true anymore. You can get a new G3 iMac at 400 Mhz, 10GB hard drive, built-in DVD (not just CD!) drive, built-in 56k modem, 64MB RAM, built-in monitor, plug-and-play out of the box in 10 minutes, hard drive built in to the base of the monitor (so no cables are dangling out), with keyboard and mouse, Firewire port, ability to hook up a DVD camcorder to edit and add music to your home movies, for $1,299! And, as the Rolling Stones' soundtrack to the Mac TV commercial says, it comes in colors (five!). Sorry to sound like a Mac commercial, but like somebody else wrote in this thread, we Mac users are fanatics ... Nothing against you PC folks. Just wanted to broaden your horizons a little. Think different! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Far be it from me to bash anything... But the I can beat that $1200 with a PC at around $900-1,000. And the PC would be a LOT more up-gradable. With 95% of all software developed for use by PCs why would I want to mess with a Mac? Like someone else already said when they start making more software for them I will think about it. ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 I would like to quote Bill Gates in response to some of the comments above. Mr. Scoop88 you have clearly demonstrated that the MAC is better than the PC, Fionn you have clearly pointed out the weaknesses on PC based platforms ala Windows. Kingtiger what the heck kinda name is that - are some sorta Lion King. "Anyways, it just doesn't matter that the MAC and MAC OS is better - you just don't get it" - I know Bill said this in response to Job's comments similar to those you both mentioned above. I don't really know waht it means, but ... Keep in mind also, Intel and Microsoft will be part of the Dow Jones Industrial Average some day. Hey Scoop, I have seen that multi-processor thing, it also appears that the applications (Word, excel, etc.) Load and run better than they do on a PC. Sincerely, Richard Kalajian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 I recently purchased a p3 500mhz(primarily so I would have a sweetsystem for CM. And the software point was my main reason for not going with a MAC. The best comparision I can think of is the the old "beta" vs "VHS" video war. Everyone said beta was better but the VHS was so much more widely used that the VHS format wiped them of the face of the soon to be playing CM demo world......did I say soon...where did I ever get that idea..(must have made it up) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoop88 Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Hey guys: Remember I'm not trying to say PCs are no good. Just saying you should try a Mac before you knock it. Both systems are good. PCs are cheaper and have more software. Macs are easier to use, the newest ones have more advanced technology like Firewire and USB, and are better for graphics work and desktop publishing. Whenever the next generation PC comes out it will probably have better technology than the Mac ... it seesaws back and forth. The beta vs. VHS analogy is a good one, except I dont' think Mac will go the way of beta. iMacs have been the best-selling computer around since they were introduced, and the G4 sounds like it's really something. Time Magazine recently ran a big story on Steve Jobs, and it was a 180-degree turn on the "Mac is going out of business" press that you read about two years ago (anyone remember the story on Macs in Rolling Stone a couple years ago?) Anyway, I say let's get CM out so we can talk about the game instead of Macs and PCs and motion sickness. The game will be great on any computer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesy Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 I would have to say they each have pluses and minuses. I have both (I work at Microsoft - although everyting I state is off the record and does not reflect Microsoft's official view - nor am i technical - I'm a corporate sales rep). The Mac is a great machine for what it does, but remember there isnt' much variability in the boxes. The PC has gazillion different manufacturers or builders with tons more third party peripherals (not to mention tons more drivers!). However, with that being said, the Windows OS is really coming along nicely. I'm currently running Windows 2000 Pro RC2, and it's a champ. I haven't had to shutdown my notebook since I installed beta 2. I can undock and dock without powering down, put it into hibernation mode and it just works - ie reconnects to the network etc. Hopefully CM will run fine on Win2000pro. I'm hoping because my home machine is an antiquated P100 w/16mb of RAM...Oh well another reason to buy a new machine for home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Jones Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 I use a PC for the same reason that I use IE, that's what I have at work. I'm used to 'em both and anything else just seems clunky. I wish Commodore had done a better job with the Amiga, I loved that thing. The day that the games I want to play, or the applications I want to use are released on LINUX first is the day I switch to LINUX. Until then I'll limp along a serf to Microsoft. ------------------ If something cannot be fixed by hitting it or by swearing at it, it wasn't worth saving anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatherof4 Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Keep in mind also, Intel and Microsoft will be part of the Dow Jones Industrial Average some day.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Kingtiger, Even as you wrote those words, I heard on the news that that day is today! fo4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Father of 4, I must be a mystic or psychic. It is easy to predict and event you already know has happened, but it makes me look really smart short term. Richard Kalajian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Interesting thread no . Actually I am qualified to talk on this because I have done PC and MAC support in years past (Now a Unix Admin by profession). First off PC's have USB just like MACS do. In the past MAC's were LIGHTYEARS ahead of PC's in technology development. However, even though I don't like Microsoft either, their years of R&D work and the R&D work of the open, non propietary system like the PC has led to it surpassing the stagnant MAC technology. Plus MAC's have problems in instability, just like PC's. However they can deal with it better because they have one set of drivers (made by Apple or Apple's primary vendor) for every part of the computer. With a PC you might have Lord knows what in them. Trust me as a Unix guy I don't have a love of Windows or NT but they do a remarkable job of handling a baffling amount of varied hardware vendors wishes... That being said I am thrilled to see MAC back on the scene pushing the PC to become even a better performer. These new MAC machines are impressive. However with the new tech that AMD is coming out everyone better watch out . A friend of mine has one of the new 700Mhz Athlons with 200Mhz bus speed, these things SMOKE anything (MAC, Pentium, Cyrix) that any other technology has to offer, period . Can't wait until the 1Ghz Athlons start rolling out next year . My that was long, sorry . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoop88 Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Tell us more about Athlon. I'm intrigued! Although I'm a Mac guy, I'm for anything that's new and better, no matter who makes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 If it's processor info you want, go ake a look at www.sharkyextreme.com The guy does some good evals and comparisons between new cpus as they come out, benchmarks and all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Macs suck! Everyone who uses macs suck! PCs can have my babys! PCs have no problems! PiTS rules! CM sucks! 3d is confusing for stupid people like me! <Insert additional stupidity and irrational commentary here> Nah, seriously, benchmarking means almost nothing to me. I use a PC at work, because that's my job. I use a PC at home because I check email and browse the web, and the PC has better web browser (I used to test browsers professionally) for anything to do with Java or dHTML. Oh -- and more games. And more hardware options. And they're cheaper. But macs don't really bug me (as they seem to some people). Macs are really good for some users and provide what they are looking for. Alternatives to Wintel machines are good -- the more the better. Linux still needs to grow up, but it's going the right direction. Sage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mikeman Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 I'm not sure the ability to upgrade easily and cheaply is as important today as it was just a couple years ago. Software developers just can't keep up with the advances in technology. A high end desktop from 12 months ago, say a PII 450 with 16MB TNT video card and 128MB RAM, will still handle even the latest software with ease and will probably continue to do so for at least another year. Flight simulator enthusiasts and FPS players might want to upgrade to the latest video cards, but really wouldn't need to in order to enjoy the most recent software. I would venture to guess that most owners of the above system wouldn't have to think "upgrade" for 3 full years if they bought the system when it was relatively new on the market. (Just as soon as the price becomes more reasonable) Now, if someone were to buy a high end desktop in January of 2000 they would probably have something like this: Athlon 700, 256MB PC133 RAM, and GeForce video card. How long is it going to be before this person finds himself limited in his software choices? Considering the time it takes to develop software I wouldn't be surprised if this person got 5 years out of his machine. (might need to upgrade video card once or twice) By then hardware technology will have advanced so much that an upgrade might not be desirable or even possible. By then a brand new machine might be the way to go for best performance/cost ratio. Now is the demo out? Mikeman out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest L Tankersley Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 For an amusing take on the whole platform wars notion, take a gander at http://www.freeyellow.com:8080/members7/geraldholmes/ "Micorsoft Windows Rules The Universe" Leland J. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts