Tank targeting enemy actions

[Placebo]

I hate to put 2 gripes on the forum in one day as I am really starting to enjoy RT now i have got used to the differences between the bocage and Russia, but there is a tank behaviour issue that seems to be really strange to me:

With tank targeting, it seems that a tanks spotting an enemy to the side will stop and the turret turn to line up with the target. Then before the gunner can fire the driver decides it is vunerable and will turn slightly to protect its weaker side armour. When he stops turning the gunner then rotates the turret to line up with the target again just for the driver to start turning again.

Should the driver give the gunner time to fire then continue turning while reloaded?

Or should this be an experience thing where green tankers are more likely to do this while vets handle this better?

Or should the driver turn completely and then the turret starts to target the enemy?

Any thoughts?

[womble]

This has been a "weakness" of the engine since BN. Personally, I think the hull turning should be subordinate to firing. Turn the gun to bear; fire; turn the hull while reloading; once you've reloaded get the gun on target again; fire etc.

Or the turret should be allowed to rotate counter to and simultaneous with the rotation of the hull so the tube stays on-bearing (give or take), with the hull rotation pausing while a shot is taken. Don't know whether that's over-optimistic on the level of coordination of actions within an AFV though.

[Placebo]

I agree, i would expect the commander to halt the tank and not allow the driver to turn until the first shot has been fired, or both turn together to get onto target quicker (that is effectivelly what an assault gun does).

[Michael Emrys]

Yeah, this has been noted and commented on. Hopefully, at some point down the road (and soon) this behavior will be corrected. The current behavior is, as you have discovered, highly irritating and I for one cannot justify it on historical grounds.

Michael

[Bulletpoint]

In real combat, wouldn't it be better to not turn the tank at all? As turning would throw the aim between each shot. Front armour is much better, yes, but the best armour is knocking out the other tank before it hits you...

[Amizaur]

Probably the best answer is - it depends.

[Placebo]

I would say the best answer is that they should do one action or the other, but not try to do both at the same time!

[Michael Emrys]

I like the idea of rotating the hull only while the main gun is loading, and if that only takes a few seconds, then don't rotate the hull at all until the original threat has been dealt with.

Michael

[Sailor Malan2]

This is getting down to too low a level for the CM engine. The video shows all tanks doing neutral turns (i.e. one track forwards and one in reverse, to turn on the spot). Many WW2 tanks could not do this - the best they could do was one track braked to a halt and one driven forwards. For some tanks that was a good way of throwing a track and the best they could realistically do was to brake one almost to a halt, giving a tight turn but not a pivot. Thus changing the behaviours when caught in flank do not necessarily make for a better (more realistic) game. For CM3 I would like to see tank transmission modelled in issues like this, but for CM2, the delays whilst the turret turns and the hull fights it is not tactically unreasonable, although a little graphically odd. But it's not the worst of those!

How do you think German tank aces routinely killed multiple tanks in ambush without getting nailed?

[A Canadian Cat]

In real combat, wouldn't it be better to not turn the tank at all? As turning would throw the aim between each shot. Front armour is much better, yes, but the best armour is knocking out the other tank before it hits you...

While true, knocking out the other guys is the best defense. You still will want to turn to face that direction because it could be a life ending decision to decided that the spotted enemy tank is the only one over that direction.

[A Canadian Cat]

With tank targeting, it seems that a tanks spotting an enemy to the side will stop and the turret turn to line up with the target. Then before the gunner can fire the driver decides it is vunerable and will turn slightly to protect its weaker side armour. When he stops turning the gunner then rotates the turret to line up with the target again just for the driver to start turning again.

I hat it when that happens. My impression - untested mind you - is that CMRT is much better about *not* doing this. I am sure I have seen my tanks turn their turret and fire before the driver turns the tank. Was I dreaming in movie mode colour?