Greg Deych Posted November 28, 1999 Share Posted November 28, 1999 I've noticed in one of the TGN night screenshots there was a building on fire. It did not seem like it was adding any light to the surrounding scene. Now, I remember there being a discussion on this in the past, but I'll be darn if I can remember what the consensus was: Do burning building light up the area, or do they make everything else that much darker by contrast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 28, 1999 Share Posted November 28, 1999 That shot was through fog at night at a great distance. It would be incorrect to draw any conclusions from it.. It'd be like trying to decide how much light a burning shack was giving off at night through a thick fog at 800 metres . ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted November 28, 1999 Share Posted November 28, 1999 It should have some tactical importance on spotting units near the fire but apart from that I really don't care about the gfx at all. Well of course I like a good looking game but it's not as important as realism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDW Posted November 28, 1999 Share Posted November 28, 1999 I vaguely remember this discussion, too. I agree that there should be some impact on spotting and LOS. It should be especially easy to spot units that are backlit by the blaze where they would otherwise be hidden in the darkness, right? As for the graphics, I can wait until Combat Mission III for the fancy lighting FX! Just as long as the basic science in the game is correct, that is all I care about. I hope that these special nightime considerations are not falling by the wayside. A long time ago I asked about those little parachutes with the "flare" on them and BTS said they would have those in the game. I wonder if that is still the case and I wonder what other nightime developments have been made since then. Fionn - you have the floor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted November 28, 1999 Share Posted November 28, 1999 Fionn you working for BTS, a beta tester or just an avid poster that likes to help or what ? Haven't figured that out yet and no I don't mind it at all. The more posts the better. I know you're writing for TGN tho, saw the Combat Mission article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 28, 1999 Share Posted November 28, 1999 BDW, To be honest with you I thought parachute flares were ruled out. I'm not 100% certain though so I'll leave it to someone else who remembers the outcome better to say which way the decision went for sure. With the kind of detail going into the design that is evident I think that we can assume the effects of burning buildings in the local area are correct. I haven't specifically tested this though but there are just SO many options that it's impossible to check them all even with a few months of play. Howard, Ah my twisted past . I'll give you the history so that I can refer people back to this when it's asked again .. Well about a year ago I by chance met some people on the net working on the multiplayer of Panzer Commander for SSI. I ended up complaining to one of them about the data in the demo of the game (not having the game) who passed my mail on to the producer of the game. The producer basically asked me to "put up or shut up" so I put up and sent in corrected data for all the vehicles in the game. That was incorporated into the game in Version 1.2 Then I went to work on other stuff in the game. Rotation speeds, weapon performances etc etc and those got released into V1.3 At roughly the same time I became one of the Alpha Testers for Panzer Elite and got involved in that game heavily until about January when I scaled back my involvement because I'd just been recruited to join The Wargamer I stayed there for a few months until I realised that what I couldn't accomplish what I wanted to do on the net game-wise and history-wise there. Setting up a specific type of history network website has always been something I've wanted to do (and work on that is proceeding still.. MY main focus right now is setting up the CombatHQ site to be THE site for everything Combat Mission related but once its up and running I intend to divert attention back to getting my history endeavours under way again ). People I was working with on the history site also were asking for a move so I moved to TGN (although I, personally, had a spell at Gamer's Alliance as Strategy and Wargames Editor and some of my editorials can still be found there but I didn't like the ethos there and left ) In the meantime I did Historical Consultancy for SSI on Fighting Steel and was involved in a couple of independent wargames which haven't seen much of the light of day . Anyways, I'd gotten interested in CM before last christmas and wrote to Charles asking if I could test it. he said yes and so I started hanging around the forum keeping an eye on it. About June of this year I got to be one of only two alpha testers for CM. Martin aka Moon was the other and we had our infamous public Alpha PBEM game in August or so. So, basically I am Manager of Historical Research at TGN but mainly I just cover strategy games. (or other games that strike me as interesting... mainly historical combat simulations...) One nice thing about TGN is that I'm given a lot of latitude to simply cover what I personally find interesting which means that I don't have to cover games which I'd simply hate and get to try to cover independent games as much as possible since that's an area of interest of mine. I am also a tester for CM but I LOVE talking about wargames and history and so chatting on the forum is something I enjoy since I get to chat with others about historical wargames. Also Steve and Charles are really busy with the game so I think the fact that I am given a LOT of freedom by them to discuss the game is great since it means I take it upon myself to answer a lot of the questions here. I don't always know the answer or get it 100% right but I try . So, in summary, I'm just a major wargame buff who has been fortunate to get some lucky breaks, get a little involved on the production side of a few big wargames, gets to write about them at TGN and was lucky enough to find CM and get to test it. People from the TGN Steel panthers forum will testify that I can always be relied upon to answer historical questions there and on any other forum I frequent . Same goes for this forum obviously. And, just for the record, I've never received a single penny from ANY company for anything I've ever done beta testing or any historical consultancy. it was all work I offered free to try to help eradicate historical bugs I even offered my help to Atomic for CC4 many months ago but they declined hehe.b I'd probably have gone mad looking at LOS-ignoring rockets during the beta though so it's probably good I wasn't taken up on my offer . ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted November 28, 1999 Share Posted November 28, 1999 Fionn: Hmmm... what can I say. You really should try to get a job inside a software house that makes you...no OUR type of games. It must be really cool to play a game and know you've had part of it, that they didnt pay you is strange tho. Like I said in another topic people that knows their history about WW2 is always interesting in my book. I just hope you haven't done anything stupid now that I'm going to ask you to make scenarios for us later on heh heh. Too bad CM isn't based on the eastern front then I would've had a scenario with Paul Hausser which is one my favourite generals, apart from Guderian that is. Do you know of any Forums with general WW2 talk btw ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 28, 1999 Share Posted November 28, 1999 Howardb, I never asked for any remuneration. I just wanted to help eradicate some of the basic errors we all see in games (not that there's a fear of that in CM ), not get paid for it. Hausser of the shot-away jaw in the breakout from Falaise fame ? Any pictures post jaw injury? I haven't see any but I'd be interested. Well I've been hoping to get a WW2 email discussion list started at TGN. I was kind of thinking of it for the future. The war-historical group on usenet is good for it too. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted November 28, 1999 Share Posted November 28, 1999 Fionn, I'm sure I speak for a large portion of the wargaming community when I say that your efforts are greatly appreciated. It is very noble of you to offer your time and knowledge to such an extent without any compenstation. I do feel that what you do should lead to some sort of consulting position, or show some compensation of some sort ( unless you are independently wealthy and really don't, need it lol). Maybe this is something that will develop for you in future games as its evident that your knowlege has played a major role in the wargaming industry. I also find it very disheartening that these other companies have declined your assistance, yet I guess that just reinforces my opinion of them. The guys you are with now seem like they got their priorities well in order, so I'm sure your efforts are well recognized. Again I greatly appreciate the work that your doing - way kool! SS_PanzerLeader........out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 28, 1999 Share Posted November 28, 1999 Independently wealthy and don't need it? I wish As for the rest, Steve and Charles have had the whole realism thing wrapped up for a long time. I barely bothered checking figures since I first saw them and discussed them many, many months ago with Steve and Charles . I'm quite sure there are minor things (like belly armour maybe not being specifically modelled) but all the important stuff which in other games yields really obviously false results has been working right in CM for the longest time. ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Ps. Just had a German platoon in the beta demo fire two Panzerfausts at US infantry and wipe out the remnants of a squad with one of them . It was prety cool tosee although I wish they'd saved them to fire at the US tanks only 100 metres away on the other side of the forest [This message has been edited by Fionn (edited 11-28-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted November 28, 1999 Share Posted November 28, 1999 Fionn: I know I got a picture of Hausser from after his injury.. I'll look into it. If I'll find it i'll scan it and post it. I'm actually more a fan of the eastern front than the western as I think that's where the real men fought heh heh. No seriously tell that to the family of the casualties of the western allies. How is the interest about the eastern front among americans? I got the feeling that only the grognards has an interest in the eastern campaign, I could be wrong tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted November 28, 1999 Share Posted November 28, 1999 ERR ......... could someone please tell me the url of these nighttime screenshots thanks SS_PanzerLeader.......out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iguana Posted November 28, 1999 Share Posted November 28, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>How is the interest about the eastern front among americans? I got the feeling that only the grognards has an interest in the eastern campaign, I could be wrong tho.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think that the average American under 40 years of age basically only knows that WW2 happened before they were born. They don't know anything about the eastern front, western front, or any other front. I bet most couldn't even name three countries involved in WW2. The movie "Saving Private Ryan" may have changed that some, but probably not much. Our education system has been so dumbed down that many people graduate high school with only a very minimal command of the English language. Everything is now geared to make us "feel good" and be "politically correct". Sigh, -Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Foobar Posted November 28, 1999 Share Posted November 28, 1999 Howard, I am from the US, and I have a pretty keen interest in the Eastern Front. I would have to say overall that I am mainly interested in what happened in the European theater, (include Africa, Middle East, etc.) Here in San Diego,CA, we recently had a museum show come through town called "WW2 Through Russian Eyes". It was extremely fascinating! It has just become feasable in the last 10 yrs to really hear the story of the Eastern Front in its entirety. Most of the detail in the U.S. of Russian sacrifice had a tendancy to be ignored during the Cold War. It is better press to downplay their achievements in general. I would be pleasantly surprised to see if Amercan students even know the the Russians took Berlin. But all of that is just side issue politics. What I left with mostly was a heavy heart for the level of viscousness and brutality that consumed that region for the duration of the war. I don't imagine that people who weren't there can completely conceive of what it was like, and I thank God that I live in a peaceful part of the world. [This message has been edited by Captain Foobar (edited 11-28-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted November 28, 1999 Share Posted November 28, 1999 SS_Panzerleader, You can find all the mentioned screenshots and more at: Combat Mission HQ!!! combathq.thegamers.net ENJOY!!!! Madmatt out... [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 11-28-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted November 28, 1999 Share Posted November 28, 1999 THANKS ALOT ! SS_PanzerLeader..out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erich Posted December 1, 1999 Share Posted December 1, 1999 I've had an interest in the Eastern Front since seeing a documentary called The Russian German War, in the mid seventies. I sometimes become frustrated with the American belief in themselves as the vanquishers of Hitler, and the saviors of the world, especially in view of the tremendous sacrifice of the Soviet people. I in no way believe that the invasion of Europe in 1944 was unnecessary, though. I think the goal was to end the war as quickly as possible, and failure on D-day would have meant an extension of hostilities that cannot be calculated. My grandfather, a wehrmacht sergeant, was spared service on the Russian Front by his company comander, who transferred him (and several other men) to a rear echelon unit in Norway just 3 days before the start of operation Barbarossa because they were family men. I can't wait to see this conflict simulated in CM2. ------------------ Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted December 1, 1999 Share Posted December 1, 1999 My interest in WW2 goes back to my childhood reading those little commando comics (heh heh). Although I am interested in the war in general, my main interest is the European theatre (inc. Africa, mid-east, and Russia). Funnily enough I only know of one relative who served in that theatre, my uncle Jimmy (great-uncle actually) he served in the 9th Australian Division (one of the Rats of Tobruk). Both of my Grandfathers served in the Pacific, one in the RAN (both surface ships and subs) and the other a mechanic in the RAAF stationed at Darwin. Don't ask me why the European theatre interests me more! Now the main reason I was writing this post, earlier this year I read one of the best ww2 history books I have ever come across:- Stalingrad by Antony Beevor. As the title suggests the book is about the battle of Stalingrad with the first 50 odd pages dealing with the lead up from operation Barbarossa. I would recommend this book to anyone with even a passing interest in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 1, 1999 Share Posted December 1, 1999 Erich, most Americans are simply unaware of history in general. It is probably one of the poorest subjects taught in US schools. The text books are CRAP, and in some cases even factually incorrect (I remember one that had Pear Harbor happening in December 1942!!!). History as taught in higher schools (what you call University level) is much, much, much better. But since most people here feel history isn't important, they elect to take different classes instead of history. Shame! I received my degree in History, so obviously I think differently Anybody that has done more than a surface look at WWII should understand that the #1 reason for the defeat of Germany in WWII was because of the losses it suffered in the Soviet Union. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captain Foobar Posted December 2, 1999 Share Posted December 2, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I sometimes become frustrated with the American belief in themselves as the vanquishers of Hitler, and the saviors of the world, especially in view of the tremendous sacrifice of the Soviet people<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey, take it easy there. Not all of us Americans are so naive. What you must come to understand is that ignoring Soviet achievements and sacrifices was the bread & butter of Cold War politics. It is an unfortunate thing to obscure the truth, but realisticly, I would imagine that Soviet political doctrine called for the same blind eye to our accomplishments. The real victims were the Russian people, whether it was the millions killed in the war, or the millions butchered by their own government. They paid an incalculable price, one man at a time. And many Americans know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Deych Posted December 2, 1999 Author Share Posted December 2, 1999 I was actually born in fUSSR, and lived there for a slightly more then half my life. I'm not exactly sure when I got interested in WWII history, though of course general awareness of WWII history is a lot higher in Russia then in America. I guess I'm still more interested in EF stuff, because it's just that much closer to home. *chuckle* So, Steve and Charles, if you need an intro track(which I believe is in public domain) to CM2 , I got a great one for you. http://www.dol.ru/users/hotdog/war.ram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted December 2, 1999 Share Posted December 2, 1999 Erich, do you know where in Norway your "Opa" served? Several norwegians took part in the fighting on the german side since many where afraid of the "Bolshevism" (and probably other reasons as well). I am not sure if there was any norwegians who fought on the EF on the russian side, but I would be surprised if there wasn't. Greg, great piece ("The Holy War")! Are there any translations availabe (or ... would you? ) Hawk ------------------ Our's is not to reason "why", our's is but to do and die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted December 2, 1999 Share Posted December 2, 1999 Excellent music Greg. I love the WW2 propaganda music. Anyone know about a site that got WW2 music somewhere ? German, Russian, English and US that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos Posted December 2, 1999 Share Posted December 2, 1999 howardb, Check out this site for music. http://www.warbooks.com/musicindex.html chaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted December 2, 1999 Share Posted December 2, 1999 chaos: I was thinking about freeware music I'm not going to buy any music CD's anyway. Thanks for the link nevertheless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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