risc Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 I don't know about you guys, but I live in a big city Toronto, Canada and people drive crazy here, I don't mind speed (ok let me correct that, I like speed) but there are so many people who just don't know Jack about driving, holding a steering week, driving bad cars (no muffler, license plate, paint, no lights)...and every year it's getting worse. I wish I could drive a Panther, I think that would solve my problems Anyone ever wanted to do the same thing ? ...I found a way out, I'm looking for a job in States early next year. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 risc, Many people in the States have adopted the "Drive a Panther" program. These new treadless Panthers, nicknamed SUV's and called Hummers, Explorerers, Cherokees and the infamous Expedition have eliminated any reasonable field of view for car drivers. Additionally everyone has a new car and therefore must drive it so the roads in the US are jammed 20% fuller than just 10 years ago. Top this with roads covered with construction and you have traffic jams full of $25-$125,000 cars. I have little against the large vehicles mentioned above, but I have noticed a disturbing trend with it's drivers. More and more I witness a very large new vehicle piloted by "think they are great drivers", talking on the cell phone, and slowing down the entire highway. How can SUV's be so popular in a country with the worlds greatest roads. I long for the day of junkie cars with no mufflers and rust all over. Alos, these drivers typically don't realize that stopping and cornering on wet and winter road surfaces is significantly more difficult. I cover Wisconsin and Illinois for my territory and without question the lions share of vehicles off the road are SUV's. Also, the SUV has additional body weight, but also has too large a footprint. The reult is that SUV's actually have lower poundage per square inch. So even though the SUV has more weight than any car, has less grip than a car. I really hate being tailgated by an SUV on a cell phone in a snow storm. I also sport Brisgestone Blizzak snow and ice tires for the Winter giving me 30% reduced stopping distance. In Chicago it really doesn't matter how bad or good the vehicle is, because the majority of the travel time is spent stopped or in a several mile long crawl before a toll. I can summarize by safely stating SUV's: 1) block my field of view making driving less safe, 2) slow me down making travel time higher, 3) drive far too aggresively for the vehicle in winter conditions, and I failed too mention cause significantly more damage in accidents and have significantly higher repair costs, resulting in higher insurance costs. So I say down with the "Panther and the Panther Syndrome". Richard Kalajian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bobb Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 Ditto to not expecting anything better farther south. Perhaps worst winter driving is where snow and ice is infrequent and the drivers forget how to drive in it when it does come it, if they ever knew. I get off the interstates if possible. Increased speed to 45 from 5 on one occasion where cars were braking and moving on in the wrong sequence crossing iced bridges on a light snow surface which was not too bad. Then there are the city drivers who appreciate a signal becauses it enables them to close the gap and squeeze out the competition. Of course they are traveling at the minimum of 5mph in excess of the limit as well. This litney could go on and on. Besides the cell phones there are the morning coffee folks and if you take the opportunity to go later there may be a mom changing her baby's diaper on the seat beside her. The Off the Roaders, yes and they virtually all have the appearance of never leaving the pavement at all, polished to a T and not a speck of dust. Totaly unlike my 9year old Honda Civic which does run off the road and is continually covered in the caliche dust of the unpaved road to my house. God what would we do for old fashoned satisfying griping, if we did not have our world of people, who are dumb asses in and about automobiles? ------- with our talents probably plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David Harrison Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 Risc-- I live in the States and hate driving. To me it's a complete waste of time and only a way to get from point A to B. I have often wished I could drive a tank so I would not have to fear collisions or accidents in the snow. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Meier Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 I live in a mountain resort town in Colorado, and usually how winter driving goes is.. First snowstorm, all the new drivers (relocated Californians mainly) and some of the old tymers end up in the ditch. Second and any following snow storms everyone slowes down and remembers how to drive the snow. Spring... Traffic jams back to California because they couldn't hack all the snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 I have a car and a motorcycle, and probably spend 80% of my driving time on the bike. Even in the northwest, (we have two types of weather, 'raining' and 'going to rain'), the enjoyment factor for motorcycles is significantly higher. However, if SUV's scare you in a car, they're even more intimidating on a bike. While driving an SUV makes you feel invulnerable, it also seems to make drivers less aware of their surroundings (including other vehicles). Perhaps the two go hand in hand. Motorcycles are inevitably the losers in any car-bike collisions. Most riders accept this as a fact of life, and behave accordingly. 'Ride as though you were invisible' is the litany of most responsible bikers. People in SUV's have the exact opposite mentality. They're safe, so why worry about traffic? It's this false sense of security that makes them unsafe to others. Some rather broad generalizations, I know. I'm sure many SUV owners feel that they are exceptional drivers (and a few probably are). Just my $.02 worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 I live in the States, and, boy, do I wish we had the mass transit Europe has! If only we had the trains and rail infrastructure they have, instead of having to choose between driving and flying only. For intermediate distances, high-speed trains are the way to go! I'd love to see a bullet train between Chicago and NYC bring back the good ol' days of the Limiteds' rivalry between the NYC and Pennsylvania Railroads! *sigh* Sometimes I think I was born a century too late. Thank God I have diversions like CM to keep me from dwelling on it too much! Dar Steckelberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 At least you guys in the US have plenty of space. Try driving in Germany these days... it's just as bad as... driving in Boston (any comments, Steve or Charles?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 If you want a *really* burly vehicle get one of the new Ford Excursions. They are a foot longer than a Suburban! Hehe. Biggest SUV in the world, as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 Haha, well put Moon I moved out of the Boston area (I grew up there) for many reasons, one of which was the traffic. My morning commute would take anywhere between 10 minutes and 40, depending on any number of factors. And this was all side roads! The highways around rush hour are parking lots. In fact, the rush hour has extended to include 6-9am and 4:00-6:30pm, as well as being crappy the rest of the daytime. I now work out of my house and don't have to drive hardly at all. And when I do, no traffic. Well, I get behind a car once and a while, and the county's only two traffic lights can back up for about 5 cars sometimes... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 Try wheeling and dealing a custom Ford F-250 4WD, quad cab with the full 8 foot bed in the back... Ahh, now that's driving! Yes, there are lots of idiots on the roads. Try driving around Washington DC with all the transient population due to military, government, and diplomatic changeover every few years. LOTS of people who don't know where the @#$% they are going. My perception of the problem with most SUV drivers, is that they equate all this "Go" power from 4WD and size to more "Stop" power. Last I checked, all the cars on the road have 4 wheel brakes. And it seems to me that more weight without a corresponding larger tire footprint means greater stopping distances. Personally, I think that the purchase of a particular vehicle should be related to driver ability. Yahoos who can't drive get the old Yugos so they cannot hurt anyone in their crashes... hehe As a final part of this rant, seems I remember about 15 years ago, there was some guy in California who had a chauffer business, where one of the customers options was to be driven around in an emasculated WWII Puma, i.e., no gun. Now THAT's riding in style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 Hey, I'm an OUTSTANDING SUV driver! I have "trained" in two demanding environments: Alaska and Italy. While stationed in Alaska (paradise), I got sent TDY back to Aberdeen Maryland. I used to live in Northern Virginia and I took a rental to look up old friends and ...talk about road rage. Rush hour that lasts all day. Wall to wall cars. In Anchorage, rush hour lasts 45 minutes. After that I went to Italy. You haven't driven till you've driven in Italy. They'll make four lanes out of two. In Florence there are wide thorough fares without marked lanes because they don't mean anything. If the guy to right comes closer you drift to the left and the guy on your left has to move as well. Absolutely amazing. Each car is a sun with its own system of scooters in orbit. It's actually written in law that if there is room between the car in front of you and oncoming traffic it is OK to pass regardless of the other markings on the road. I don't have a behemoth, but I've got a Pathfinder and I love it. I think the driving problem is less of a SUV driven one than just a general degradation of people's respect for one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 I'm getting an SUV as soon as I can afford one - simply put, you can see better and you have better protection. As far as people driving crazy these days, I just think, overall, that people think their time is worth more than yours. Instant gratification is in these days, patience and respect for your fellow man is out. I saw some dude get all peeved yesterday in a McDonalds drive-thru because of a lengthy order delay...it turns out the McD's people were having trouble with their computers. People are nuts (just check the paper these days). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano6 Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 I own an SUV(Ford Bronco) basically in order to tow a boat and fit extra people on the way to the lake for some good wakeboarding. What I find is that most SUVs do not offer good visibility of the road around the vehicle. I have even made the mistake of coming close to cutting someone off in the lane next to me because of lack of visibility. This is a problem that does not go away in these types of vehicles. What the normal person lacks is the will to train themselves to a good enough driver for the vehicle they own. A SUV is inherently harder to drive than a car, but people think they are easier and do not try and better their driving skills. They are higher in the air than a car and feel as though they are more protected. Let me tell you this. SUVs do not stop as well as cars, they do not turn as well as cars, they have a tendency to roll once sideways unlike cars. SUVs are much more difficult to drive in traffic than a car, especially if you drive them like a car. I also ride a motorcycle, and what I see while I am riding is amazing. You have to really pay attention while riding a motorcycle or you end up road pizza. Most drivers with SUVs(especially women) do not check out their side windows before making a lane change they only use their mirrors. This is due to the fact that you have to turn your head more to see out the back and side of an SUV more than a car. Also an SUV has a bigger blind spot than cars due to the height. This has made for more than a few SUVs entering my lane and taking my spot while I am on a motorcycle. The funny part is that they don't even realize what they have done because of the huge amount of blind spots. Another problem is cell phones, the F***ing idiots who talk on these while they are driving are amazing. They slow down, speed up, and typically make life hell on the freeway. There should be a class on how to drive while talking on the phone required for all cell phone users. Last but not least are the F***ing morons who are rubberneckers. God Damn can't you just keep yourselves from looking and hitting the brake at the same time. My god, are you that completely idiotic that you can't just keep your foot in the gas and look at the same time. Or hey, just keep your eyes on the road ahead of you. That might just be the thing that saves your life. dano6 Californian Driver(the land of idiot drivers from every country. they all come here to show just how moronic a driver can be) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 Dano 6, No offense but how about watching the language (personally I couldn't care less about the F-word but I'm kinda nauseated at the taking God's name in vain thing). 'Nuff said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dano6 Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 Buddy, sorry about the God thing, I'm not religious in the least, and the f***ing word thing could also mean flipping by the way, so don't go off and have a tizzy. If I wanted to to use expletives I would have just wrote it out and took the consequences, it is just like the #$@%$ you see everwhere else. It is meant for emphasis on a point. dano6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted September 17, 1999 Share Posted September 17, 1999 I vote to lock the thread! Steve: Bostons roads evolved from Cow-hearding paths. Believe it or not. I remember those tunnels on the outskirts of the city. It has to be one of the only places in the world where a boat can get you to the airport faster than a cab. SUV and truck owners my apologies for bringing up the SUV issue. I love SUV's and wish I could justify the cost. Many, if not most SUV drivers are excellent, especially those with trailers. Looking into the mirror before lane changing: Most people are not familiar with proper mirror positioning. If you plan to use mirrors for lane changes then you should have them set to not see the side of your own car. Most people can't deal with that. Especially with a large vehicle. I vote a second time to lock thread. Richard Kalajian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGTRock Posted September 17, 1999 Share Posted September 17, 1999 Well i drive the closest thing to a tank on the road a 1975 Volvo 244Dl. What gets my goat is not just the cell users (Posers as I call them) but all the damn mini vans! with 23 people in them most of them foreign (Not being racists) but it's definately the case here in Toronto. I swear people do not know how to drive these things! They don't over compensate for the weight nor the size of the damn thing! And each one of them is like driving behind a flippin bill board! I say ban the things, unless you take a course on how to drive them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted September 17, 1999 Share Posted September 17, 1999 Well I ride a bicycle in Australia and most of my way to work is cycleways so I have a nice relaxing ride and definitely no snow or ice he he. Here people got so pissed off with mobile phones it is illegal to use them while driving in most places and anybody seen using one gets an earful of abuse. Like motorbikes we are vulnerable and every now and again I get knocked off, as you usually see it coming I always try and land on the bonnet. I just got myself a nice new bike courtesy of some moron. As for close misses I am very adept with my bike pump and a few bashes on the duco and they soon give you a bit of room he he. Thankfully we only have normal off road vehicles not those huge things but then as they say "everything is bigger in the US" (everything visible that is ). I often wonder about that inverse relationship hypothesis they say it about dogs too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhet Posted September 17, 1999 Share Posted September 17, 1999 This topic is kind of near and dear to my heart. As a Highway Engineer it has always amazed me that the safer you design and build a road the more people think it is a race track or a demoliton derby. I have often wondered if the State governments of the U.S.A. just staple a drivers licence to every birth certificate or emmigration card they issue. The problem lies with the way we allow subpar drivers (and vehicles) to roam freely on this nations highways. We really need stricter standards to determine if a vehicle is roadworthy or not and driver testing should be done bi-annualy. This testing should be difficult and should encompass inclement weather techniques and emergency avoidence situations. I used to rip around on public roads with my cars when one day I was invited to race them on a track. I soon realized that the race track was the appropriate place to drive aggressivly and that driving aggressivily on public roads only hurts people that really don't deserve it. I am not saying that speeding is amoral. Far from it! Just do it safely and responsibly (like on an open road with no one around). Sorry for the rant. This comes from growing up in Northern Virginia (17 years) and 13 years of trying to keep the same problems from happening down here in Florida. Now if I could only steer this thread back twoards WWII.... Did anyone here know that the Interstates in the U.S. were modeled after the Autobahnns in Germany. Yup, Eisenhour saw how well they helped Germanys war effort and started the National Defense Highway Act. Soon highways were streaching out all over this country. Today they are the biggest factor in our economy. Ok here is the $1,000,000 question... Why is the minimum vertical clearence for bridges on our Interstates 16 feet? Any guesses? ------------------ Rhet [This message has been edited by Rhet (edited 09-16-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Talley Posted September 17, 1999 Share Posted September 17, 1999 I don't know the exact reason for the minimum vertical clearances but I will guess they were to ensure passage of tank transporters. Now if I remember correctly there were certain defensive capabilities designed into our interstate system as well. But I just can't remember at the moment what they are. Were there some sort of hull down positions built in as well as certain LOS requirements or am I completely off the mark? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGTRock Posted September 17, 1999 Share Posted September 17, 1999 Rhet, So did you design I64 between Norfolk and Richmond? How about I95 between Richmond and D.C.? Those are hellish drives! jk. I know you didn't but just thought I'd tell you how much they need a one more lane on each side...or just teach Virginians' what a passing lane is and what a slow traffic lane is...naw...just give'm another lane.. Rocks Top Worst Drivers by State 5. Maryland 4. Ohio 3. Virgina 2. North Carolina and the number one worst drivers in the States are...dah tah da-da-da! 1. Floridians (seniors to be exact) Somebody really does need to teach people to pull over and let others pass that are going faster than them. (lived in VA for 5 years loved it there but hated the drivers though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted September 17, 1999 Share Posted September 17, 1999 Re: SUV stopping distances etc. In general SUVs do take loonger to stop than cars, but also consider this. So do cars that have automatic transmissions. In 4wd, my SUV will stop on a dime if I downshift one gear and let the drivetrain drag help me stop. Very useful in the winter when braking of any kind is hazardous. Re: Cell phone drivers. They should all be shot. People driving cars are operating the most deadly piece of equipment known to man and operating one requires the operator's full attention. I can't even make effective conversation when I'm driving, I'd never be able to dial a cell phone. In germany I believe it is illegal to talk on a cell phone (handheld) while driving because most cars sold over here have standard transmissions and you can't shift and talk at the same time. And another point about US drivers. Like someone said it seems that anyone with a heartbeat can get one. What do they cost these days? $20? In europe people pay up to $3,000 dollars for a mandatory driver's course. The end result is more capable drivers though not necessarily more poite ones. In Italy it is kill or be killed (yield and you won't get where you are going) but nobody deliberately runs people over, off the road or shoots at anybody. I have the feeling that in the states more accidents are caused by incompetence than aggressive driving. "officer I didn't see him at all." [This message has been edited by R Cunningham (edited 09-17-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted September 17, 1999 Share Posted September 17, 1999 It's not illegal yet in Germany to drive and talk on a mobile, but it is already in some neighbor countries (Holland I believe) and probably will be shortly prohibted here as well. But any sane person will stop driving and talking at the same time, because you end up shifting gears with your knees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted September 17, 1999 Share Posted September 17, 1999 In Ireland it is already illegal to drive whilst talking on a mobile. It's far too distracting when people are talking on the phone and trying to drive. And, when you see them carried in with their crushed thoraxes and metal spars impaled in their sides then it really becomes obvious how stupid it is. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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