Aryaman Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Hi I played the Barbarossa scenario in a pbem match. By mid 1943 I was in a difficult position, having lost Leningrad, Stalingrad and Baku, but my tech level was superior to the germans in every field. My opponent was so discouraged by this that at the end he surrendered. We thought it was something in our research decissions or just plain luck, however We are playing the rematch reversed sides and I noticed that my opponent already upgraded to infantry level 1 while I am stucked at a miserable 38% for the Germans, while the Italians are at a more respectable 55%. So I wonder, is that working as designed or is there a bug in German research? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted July 26, 2013 Share Posted July 26, 2013 Hi Aryaman It may well be correct, depending firstly on when the research chits were invested, as progress will vary each turn, and secondly on how many chits have been invested. Also, once a threshold (currently 30% I believe in the version you are using) has been passed, there is a small % chance each turn of a research breakthrough, thus in the example above, it is possible that Germany could develop level 1 before Italy. The original research system from SC1 and earlier in SC2 relied on luck alone, whereas the system introduced with SC WWI and imported into our more recent WWII releases works on a combination of progression per turn with an element of luck. Some tweaks to this are quite likely in future to tone down the luck element a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aryaman Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 Hi Bill What I have observed is that Italian research advance faster than German research. For instance, in 3 consecutive turns I have monitored the advance Infantry research for Germany advanced 1 or 2% while Italian 4 or 5%, no wonder Italy is now at 65% while Germany is still at 41%. Both started the same trun, as you know research on Ifantry comes by default at the start of the campaign. Italy is more advanced in research in all other fields in which it has invested. I wonder if that is only in my game, but as I have written, my opponent was suffering a comparable lag in research with the Germans in our previous match, so maybe something is not working as designed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 And I thought it was just me. Doesn't happen always but I have seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill101 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Hi Bill What I have observed is that Italian research advance faster than German research. For instance, in 3 consecutive turns I have monitored the advance Infantry research for Germany advanced 1 or 2% while Italian 4 or 5%, no wonder Italy is now at 65% while Germany is still at 41%. Both started the same trun, as you know research on Ifantry comes by default at the start of the campaign. Italy is more advanced in research in all other fields in which it has invested. I wonder if that is only in my game, but as I have written, my opponent was suffering a comparable lag in research with the Germans in our previous match, so maybe something is not working as designed? Hi Aryaman This would be possible if Germany only has 1 chit invested while Italy has two, or if there are some other factors involved. There is an in depth explanation of the research system in this thread from our WWI forum: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=107356&page=6 It may be that Italy is being lucky, and randomness can appear to follow a pattern, but if you think that what's happening in your game is definitely beyond the bounds of the variability as described in this thread, then please let us know. Thanks Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 BTW you should always be maxxing out the infantry, air, and tank research as the Germans and the Soviets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludi1867 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I am surprised and confused by part of Bill101's response: as far as I have been able to determine Germany and Italy can ONLY invest one chit in ANY area of research in this scenario. Is that not correct? Overall I have found German R&D to be somewhat slower than Soviet, but ALSO I have found research to be incredibly varied in this scenario. Why? Well, part of it is the restriction of ONLY one chit in any area. That means that breakthroughs are incredibly important in this scenario. You CANNOT prioritize any area of research, and what to do after putting a single chit in infantry, air and armour research is really hard to tell. So far I have NOT been impressed with the balance of this scenario at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aryaman Posted July 29, 2013 Author Share Posted July 29, 2013 I am surprised and confused by part of Bill101's response: as far as I have been able to determine Germany and Italy can ONLY invest one chit in ANY area of research in this scenario. Is that not correct? . That is what I was going to write as well.There is a maximum of 1 chit per research field in the scenario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy131313 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 How is the balance of the main scenario? Which side have players found favorable? I'm mostly asking because of Ludi's comment about the game being unbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Bill is a different scenario designer than I am. He made probably forgot AoC is a 1 level per research tech tree. You can only put one research level into a field at a time. Like all SC games I find infantry, tank, and air warfare are 100% a must have to keep up all the time. AoC is the same. I've been pushing to rewrite the research formula to be more linear and less random so balance occurs. Originally AoC had a slow upgrade on the tech of 1/2 point on a unit's attribute but too many people got confused so I kept it at 1 increase per attribute like all other SC2 games. As for AoC. Some believe it favors the Soviets. I think it is balanced. I have played over 20 games myself vs some very good players as either side. There are some issues with Soviet armor that I resolved for 1942 that should balance the game more during the next patch. I submitted the files not sure if the patch came out yet. There are some strategies to be employed by the Germans and the Soviets. I will go over them in a new strategy post I will make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy131313 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I'm still playing my first campaign against the Russian AI and the results have been pretty good so far. It's November of 1941 and I'm at the gates of Leningrad, Moscow, and just barely captured Rostov and Kharkov before the year is about to end. Though I got pretty lucky with Rostov and should be removed the city next turn. Though I changed Finland, Hungary and Romania to majors and added Croatia and Slovakia as German minors I'm pretty sure the results would be close to the same. Very happy with the feel of the campaign so far. I am Looking forward to the full of might of Russia after they rebuild this winter. Great Work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Looks nice. Curious how many forces the Soviets have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy131313 Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Nov 16, 1941 120 Soviet ground forces 137 Combined Axis Ground Forces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aryaman Posted August 10, 2013 Author Share Posted August 10, 2013 Bill is a different scenario designer than I am. He made probably forgot AoC is a 1 level per research tech tree. You can only put one research level into a field at a time. Like all SC games I find infantry, tank, and air warfare are 100% a must have to keep up all the time. AoC is the same. I've been pushing to rewrite the research formula to be more linear and less random so balance occurs. Originally AoC had a slow upgrade on the tech of 1/2 point on a unit's attribute but too many people got confused so I kept it at 1 increase per attribute like all other SC2 games. As for AoC. Some believe it favors the Soviets. I think it is balanced. I have played over 20 games myself vs some very good players as either side. There are some issues with Soviet armor that I resolved for 1942 that should balance the game more during the next patch. I submitted the files not sure if the patch came out yet. There are some strategies to be employed by the Germans and the Soviets. I will go over them in a new strategy post I will make. What I would like to know is if the German research is slower than the Soviet one. Because that is what is happening, so I wish to know if that is working as designed or it is a bug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Its should be able to keep up. Let me adjust it and put out a hotfix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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