Idea to support scenario replayability

[renaldo1]

Here is an idea that I've been thinking about for a while. But since I have a technical query over on the Tech Support board I'd thought I'd pop over and post it for comment.

I understand that there can be up to 5 AI plans for a scenario. Let's assume for this example that there are 3 for a given scenario and let's label them P, Q and R. I play for the first time. The AI uses AI plan P and of we go. Now, I would like to replay the scenario. It might be that the AI picks plan P again. This might not be apparent until some way through the scenario. I've then wasted alot of time to realise this and once I do I think "not much new fun" and stop. This process could repeat several times.

Proposal: it would add to replayability if I knew how many AI plans there were and could selectively limit the choice that the AI picked (or in some cases force it).

So, for example:

First play: I know there are 3 AI plans and I allow to pick from all

Importantly is that at this point I don't get told which plan is picked.

At the end of the scenario (on results screen) I get told "AI plan Q used"

Second play: I click to de-select AI plan Q. The AI chooses one of the other two plans and I play. This way I know I am playing against a new AI plan. At the end, I again get to know which it was (let's say AI plan P).

Third play: I click to de-select P and Q so that I force AI to select plan R. Since I've not played it before, it doesn't matter that I know that I am playing R - I know that I get a new plan.

Fourth play: I give no selection. This is why it is important not to be told until the end which plan I get. This way I don't know which plan I'm playing even though I've played all 3 before.

Fifth play: I de-select P and R because I want to play Q because it's the toughest plan and I've never won against Q before and want to try again. This is an alternative reason to force selection than for third play (which was "know I've never played it before").

Any thoughts?

[Bulletpoint]

I think the most important is probably that you know the computer can use different plans. That way, you know the attack can come from different directions, so you can't just stack all your troops in the best side of the map.

It could also be interesting if the scenario designer didn't place every unit at exact points, but rather designated "force areas", so for example could designate that "this area might contain infantry", "this area may contain bunkers".. as a kind of guideline for how the computer should generally deploy, but that you wouldnt know exactly where the enemy would be, or which units, even if you played the map before.

[Quintus Sertorius]

This is not a bad idea, but on the other hand the same AI plan rarely plays out exactly the same way (in my experience, at least).

[agusto]

Any thoughts?

What you request is already entirely possible in the current version of the game. You can go to the editor (ie open the scenario of your choice in the scenario editor) and look how many AI plans there are and active or deactivate them as you desire with less than 5 clicks. This wont spoil the scenario for you, if you go straight to the AI plans activation/deactivation menu you will not get any info on the enemys TOE or the what the enemy AI plans look like.

Deactivate all AI plans except number 1 one for the first time you play a scenario. Then deactivate all but the second AI plan during the second play through and so on and so forth...

[renaldo1]

@ agusto - thanks, I wasn't aware of that (I'm not too familiar with the scenario editor). I've had a look into it and agree that (exactly as you say) it gives me just what I'm after. That's a big plus for me on replayability. One question/comment - I'm not too sure whether when I set an existing AI plan to "Not Used" it deletes it completely or just disables its selection whilst retaining its existence. I'd guess it's the latter but just to be on the safe side I'm saving as a different filename each time that I de-select AI plans so as to keep the original safe.

So, once again, many thanks for pointing out this feature - much appreciated.

... now I have another idea/suggestion. There are some great scenarios that only have 1 AI plan. That's fine, they're still great scenarios and I appreciate the effort put into them. But what would be great is if one of the top players could take one of those and add a new AI plan in and make that version of the scenario available. Of course I understand that playing an AI set by one of the good players is not the same as playing the good player ... but still it could provide an interesting new challenge. I'm basing on the theory that the best Scenario Designers are not necessarily a 100% overlap with the best "players / AI plan setters" (of course good player and good at setting AI plan is not necessarily a 100% overlap either but I'm thinking that way ...). But at the very least we'd get a new AI plan where only 1 exists now.

Of course there may be issues of author rights, IP etc. that need to be agreed upfront but BF could probably broker any agreement on a case by case basis if there was enough interest in the idea (and if they were willing to do so which I also don't take for granted ...).

Any mileage in this idea?

[Chris Ferrous]

As someone who does design scenarios I can say that I would not have the slightest objection to any player switching various AI plans on or off, editing the OOB or anything else they happen to feel like doing PROVIDING that it is done just for their own use, or for a HvH game with a pal.

I wouldn't be too pleased if someone 're-published' this revision without asking permission or did so without acknowledgement as if it was all their own.

I have usually used the 'random' deployment design feature since I like to play my own scenarios. It is simple enough to do this, especially now that we have more unit groups to play with. Previously there simply may not have been enough groups to 'waste one' on the position of a couple of batches of mines for instance. Now we have plenty.

The only problem I have encountered with such 'random' deployments is that sometimes the unit orientation is suboptimal or even nonsensical, e.g. deploying on the side of the bocage nearest the enemy. It's relatively rare (say 1 in 10 units) but it can be annoying when it happens.

[tdogg]

I like to mess with editor and design my own scenarios that play out in a random way. Sometime the ai does place things in questionable places. Is there any tricks to having the ai do it's own defensive setup with proper trench placement ?