togi Posted June 15, 2013 Share Posted June 15, 2013 let's talk on this good infantry tactic based scenario. I have played with germanside with elite level. It seems easier after 2.01 patch's machine gun boost. because german platoons have 2 mg gunner attached originally. author has commented to play with germans against AI any comments on that? Regards 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG TOW Posted June 16, 2013 Share Posted June 16, 2013 I just played as allied and scored a tactical victory. Good little scenario where 2 companies bump into each other. without giving too much away, its knowing how to shift your forces and concentrate your firepower once you get a grasp on what Gerry has. Avoid attrition in this one. I did manage to keep the MG42 HMG's pinned and picked off. Sure the German squad LMG's gave me grief as well. But my little knee mortar dets were showing high casualty inflicted, like in the teens for each one. Maybe that's the CW counter. Don't waste the little mortar dets. Spoiler Alert....if you haven't played as allied don't read the AAR further ... ... ... ... ... ... I believe the Germans seem to have a firepower advantage with off map arty and the MG 42. So allied tactics have to be fluid to win rather than just lining up behind a wall and exchanging gunfire. Once I saw the German AI was becoming static I started forming a platoon to flank. And there is plenty of room to do a hooking flank on the left. Its not so much that the Axis reached their objectives and stopped. I did manage to get them pinned once they crested over the hill. And they did divide into 2 forces one in each orchard on each side of the road/path. When the clock ran out I had the ground objectives but was mediocre for unit objectives and parameters. Although I decimated the enemy in the left orchard down the hill, my right flank was checked by a solid platoon of pioneers who inflicted numerous casualties on me, and were only showing a nervous condition. As long as they stood fast I would have been creamed trying to move in on them next. Lucky my time ran out. .... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEB14 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Has anybody played this one H2H? I have been overrun in 20 minutes as the Canadian side. I didn't stand a chance. Two rounds of mortars (first turn and around 15 minutes at the clock) and pooh… everybody's either dead, broken or about to be so. No hiding place, no cover behind the start line, no time to advance to the next wall as the Germans are upon you before you can move an inch. Did I miss something there??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Head to head results from the Blitz. 14 games registered Gaming Records 1st Side Player 2nd Side Player Result Score LuckyLlama vs. Captain K Canada Tactical Victory 54 18 weta_nz vs. Singapore Sling Draw 36 36 para bellum vs. kadursahl Heer Major Victory 60 12 weapon2010 vs. raz_atoth Draw 36 36 Safetyman vs. A Canadian Cat Canada Total Defeat 6 66 Panzer Lehr vs. TeddyA Heer Minor Victory 48 24 Guardsman vs. speedyninja Heer Total Victory 66 6 Panzer Lehr vs. a1steaks Draw 36 36 BletchleyGeek vs. Duff Draw 36 36 Spatenknecht vs. Fusilier9 Heer Total Defeat 6 66 Fusilier9 vs. Spatenknecht Canada Major Victory 60 12 BrosifBallin vs. miller41 Heer Major Victory 60 12 Duff vs. a1steaks Canada Major Victory 60 12 Mad Mike vs. Jpratt88 Heer Total Victory 66 6 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEB14 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 6 hours ago, ASL Veteran said: Head to head results from the Blitz. 14 games registered Thank you, I've already checked that, and I was somewhat surprised to see good Canadian achievements. Which, basically, doesn't answer the question: how?? By the way, as the scenario author (nice map, by the way!), you certainly have an idea... Edited February 6 by PEB14 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEB14 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Not the disaster I wa afraid of, but what a massacre… Victory conditions are really harsh for the Germans: he caused me more than 75% of casualty rates but still he hasn't got all the VP for targets… I'm still wondering how the Canadians are supposed to win this one. They have no advantage at all save the numbers. They hold only half of the VP locations at game start (so they're not really the defending side), they have no artillery (save their lovely light mortars), poor to very poor quality troops (regular/green with low leadership), no support weapons… More importantly (IMHO) they have ne place to retreat to, if they're pushed back they have to retreat in the open, squeezed against the map edge… The briefing suggested to push forward towards the crest, which I gladly tried to perform with 2/3 of my forces screened by scouts (the other 1/3 being kept in reserve). But I only won a well placed mortar barrage for my effort, and once it lifted the Germans were on me before I could reach the next wall (save on my left side)… Jon, I'm really interested to know what point I missed in this one… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 It's possible you didn't miss a thing. The part the Germans seemed to struggle with is they are forced to hit the crest of the hill (and I don't think there is a wall directly on the crest so they are mostly out in the open while you are behind walls if I remember right) and if the German doesn't hit the crest all at once, then the full firepower of the Canadians is on just the Germans on the crest (if the Canadians advance up a wall or two) so it really depends on what the German player did. I think the Canadian wants to be positioned on the wall closest to the crest that they can reach and then just blast the Germans off the crest as they arrive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEB14 Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 @ASL Veteran Thanks you for comforting me in my distress... If I lost it's finally because my opponent did a good job. Which makes clearly sense. I still have the feeling that this specific scenario is optimized for human Canadian player against German AI. Am I correct? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASL Veteran Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Given the stats at from the Blitz, overall I'm satisfied with the results. There is only so much we can do to fine tune scenarios. There generally isn't sufficient time for anyone to play it head to head before release so we mostly have to test vs the AI from each side and tweak from that. Feedback can also be difficult since it can be 'interpretive'. One person could say that it's completely unbalanced in favor of one side, and then once it's released it turns out that it's unbalanced to the opposite side. It's much better to watch YouTube videos of the scenarios because you can actually see exactly what the player is doing and tweak from that, but we won't see that stuff until after release. It's just too difficult to balance something for any specific player or match between two specific players. All we can do is hope that the aggregate of all the games played works out such that each side has a reasonable chance of victory. It takes a lot of games against the AI as well as a bit of luck and intuition. Sometimes it works out great and sometimes we produce a big turd. It just comes with the territory. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PEB14 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 6 hours ago, ASL Veteran said: Given the stats at from the Blitz, overall I'm satisfied with the results. There is only so much we can do to fine tune scenarios. There generally isn't sufficient time for anyone to play it head to head before release so we mostly have to test vs the AI from each side and tweak from that. Feedback can also be difficult since it can be 'interpretive'. One person could say that it's completely unbalanced in favor of one side, and then once it's released it turns out that it's unbalanced to the opposite side. It's much better to watch YouTube videos of the scenarios because you can actually see exactly what the player is doing and tweak from that, but we won't see that stuff until after release. It's just too difficult to balance something for any specific player or match between two specific players. All we can do is hope that the aggregate of all the games played works out such that each side has a reasonable chance of victory. It takes a lot of games against the AI as well as a bit of luck and intuition. Sometimes it works out great and sometimes we produce a big turd. It just comes with the territory. I can only agree to all you've written above. There is only one point that you don't mention : H2H vs. AI balance. We all know that a human player is (or at least should... ) be stronger than CM AI as an opponent. Which basically means that a scenario well balanced for playing against the AI is inherently unbalanced in favor of the AI side w<hen it comes to playing it H2H. Or that a scenario well balanced for H2H games will be easy wins against the AI. This is especially true for the AI as an attacker. Most scenarios released by the community contributors are either flagged as "best played against the [Axis/Allied] AI" or "best played H2H", and some have even different versions (one balanced for H2H and another one for playing against tha AI). AFAIK, BFC requests that all scenarios packed into their commercial releases shall be playable in all modes. IMHO this is a source of frustration (in particular when it comes to playing them H2H) because, except in some very particular cases, a CM scenario CANNOT be well balanced for all modes because of the AI intrisic weaknesses. Am I correct in my statements? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 10 hours ago, PEB14 said: a CM scenario CANNOT be well balanced for all modes because of the AI intrisic weaknesses. Agreed - although there may be a few outliers where either thru luck or designer genius, the game is balanced - but that is v rare. Also... The best designers can also create very challenging AI oppo that may be tougher than a human. The reason is that a designer knows the map intimately and can create ambush opportunities that are very subtle and not easily seen by a human playing the game for the first time. Eg: We have all come across situations where an enemy can fire at us, but for reasons of CM2 terrain quirks we cannot see or shoot at the enemy. During his playtesting and using terrain manipulation a designer can exploit this. But, a new player will be unlikely to spot this sort of thing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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