Ritirare! Allied attack AAR

[Penry]

@ womble - Not that I'm qualified to answer with any degree of accuracy, but I have a feeling BD is lobbing 105mm rounds at me. They look/sound similar to stuff he's hit me with before and I think that was what he was using then. I also have my men spread between the top floor and the ground floor now, to hedge my bets somewhat!

@ Baneman - Thanks for the tip, not sure how I missed that when my HQ support team were already on the half track. Back on board they go.....

@ John - I'm only using the diamond view as it seems to be the natural way to look at things, as I intend to push up through the valley eventually. I did wonder whether I should have posted the image in post 28. I wanted to show the R35 in the distance and my burning half track in the foreground, I just couldn't figure out a way to exclude my prone men on the second floor of the building without a savage crop. Is there a way to make the walls opaque when you have men inside, that would help immensely? Thanks for your directions to the spotting thread, not sure when I'll ever get the time to read up on all that though, I think a rearead of the manual might reap more rewards first!

Thanks to all for these bits of advice and the larger helpings of encouragement. I'm not sure what I enjoy most, actually playing CM or weaving the experience into a DAR!

And on that note.....

[Penry]

Turn 10

OK, another low body count round, and taking on advice both here and over at WPC I have decided to stir things up a bit. Some will come soon, others will come in the not too distant future.

As for what happened this turn, my mortar team (yellow circle) sustained a second casualty from BDs southern R35 (yellow circle). They didn't feel like running across the open ground, back to the bottom of the hill, instead they hugged the dirt under the trees for the remainder of the round. I hope BDs R35 doesn't get the time/chance to fire off another round across the valley. I feel I've been lucky so far to only lose one amn per shot. I'm trying my best to get them out of there, they just don't seem to want to budge!

Another screeching spotting round landed towards my rear (white star in the river). I wonder if BD is aiming for my buildings or where my half tracks were? I hope it's the latter.

My MMG team in the woods on the other side of the bridge managed to firm up some contacts in and around the farm. They spotted an Italian HQ team (red circle), an Italian 45mm mortar team (orange circle) and the re-appearance of the Italian 47mm AT gun (light green circle)

The only other casualty I sustained was my half track driver by the bridge. So much for crawling away to safety, BDs men to the left of the farm fired a couple of rounds his way and he was soon no longer of this world.....

I should have kept in on the bridge obviously!

[Penry]

Orders:

Time to shake things up a bit. Hopefully I haven't gone off the other end of the scale again and I put some pressure on BD, rather than add another load to my body count.

Most of the action will take place on the right of the river.

My front MMG will deploy their gun and open fore on BDs AT gun position (red line and cross).

The frontmost half track will hunt forward and area fire over the whole farm area (white triangle is fire arc)

The middle half track will hunt forward and open fore on the left farmhouse (grey line and cross)

The rear half track will speed forward, then hunt forward and open fore on the right farmhouse (black line and cross)

While they are doing this, my rifle squad will continue their slow crawl up the ploughed field. If I manage to suppress the farmhouse defenders with my half tracks etc, I might hurry my rifle squad along.

2nd Platoon HQ and rear MMG to move forward some.

To the left of the river I will attempt to withdraw my mortar team again.

I also got an off board mortar section as reinforcements this turn, so decided it was time to use my off board artillery again. I have set up two smoke attacks, to try and nullify the two remaining R35s and allow me to make a move out of my building area.

The light green smoke strike will occur in 6 minutes and will drift (I hope) in the direction of the arrow. It will be called in by my 1st Platoon HQ team (light green circle)

The light blue smoke strike will occur in 8 minutes and will drift (I hope) in the direction of the arrow. It will be called in by my Company HQ team (light blue circle)

I've also ordered the HQ support team in the building area to mount a half track and with a view to acquiring some bazookas. One of the rifle squads in the building area have likewise been instructed to do the same with another half track.

Let's hope those half tracks last a bit longer facing head on to their enemy!

[John Kettler]

Penry,

Good thing you didn't have the time to check out Spotting looking for that hlftrack FM, seeing as how I didn't post the link, since it didn't have what I needed at the time. Here's the link for Crew Drills for Halftracks. Short, enlightening read!

http://www.easy39th.com/files/FM_17-71_Crew_Drill_for_Half-track_Vehicles_1943.pdf

Regards,

John Kettler

[Penry]

Turn 11

Well, that didn't really go according to plan! It really is a death trap down here in the valley!

My half tracks advanced towards the farm and started to lay down some fire the two buildings. So far so good. I even scored some hits on and around the windows, so may well have caused some casualties for BD, although I could see no confirmed kills! Then some fire started coming in from high to my left. BDs R35 was firing its machine gun in an effort to take out my half track crews.

This caused a bit of worry for my half trackers and they decided that reversing out was the best course of action. More fire came down from above and it wasn't long before I lost a gunner.

Towards the end of the round BD decided to switch from machine gun to main gun and a single round was all it took to knock out both the crew of another half track!

[Penry]

While all this was going on, I could hear the faint pop, pop, popping of mortars being fired. My two MMG teams (black circle) in the woods on the other side of the bridge were the recipients of one lot of mortars, killing the leader of the newly arrrived team.

BD also seems to be laying what appears to be a smoke screen just to the north of my buildings. (white oval)

Another round splashed down at the rear of the map, once again landing in the water (red star), but that strike seems rather inconsequential compared to the action going on further up the valley.

There was some good news this turn. My left flank mortar team finally made it back to the bottom of the hill, and my HQ support team managed to mount the nearby halftrack without any mishaps! That's all though I'm afraid.

Right at the end of the turn I noticed some of BDs infantrymen emerge from the forest to the north and start to run down the hill. It wasn't long before my covering MMG team let loose, but the turn ended before any results could be viewed.....

Let's hope BD is getting impatient and is making some rash decisions. I could do with getting a few kills under my belt!

[Penry]

Orders:

HQ support team in half track - grab the bazooka and 4 rounds, then head for the nearby building.

Retreating mortar team - cut across to the buildings (yellow arrow).

MMG team by buildings - kill da Italians (red line and cross)!

Rifle squad on other side of the river (yellow circle) - split to form an AT team. AT team mount nearby halftrack. Rest of the squad crawl up the hill as before.

[Penry]

Turn 12

BD continues to whittle away at my forces. I just don't seem to be able to get into a position where I can exert pressure on him without sustaining regular casualties myself. I know that the answer is concentration of force and overwhelm his defences, it is just that I'm unable to get that concentration. There are very few positions with any decent cover, and those that are are very small and isolated. To add to the conundrum, there is the continued presence of BDs R35s on both flanks, which can overlook the vast majority of the battlefield. This sure is a tough nut to crack!

I'll start with what went well. On the left flank BD pushed his confidence and, on and off, I saw what must be a whole rifle squad run in and out of view. Trouble is my MMG team and then my MGer on my half track saw them too!

First BD pushed forward, then hit the ground, then started taking casualties and then about turned and ran for it! I must say this brought me some pleasure. At least it isn't just me that has to deal with these problems! Of course BD won't lose the game by being a bit adventurous with a rifle squad. As long as he's sitting comfortable on his VLs then he can afford to be a bit frivolous! If only my MGers had been more accurate, then I might really have made BD pay for his over confidence.....

On the other side of the river things didn't go quite so well! My front MMG team in the woods were just recovering their morale after BDs little mortar strike ended, and were just setting up to open fire on BDs AT gun, when the AT gun beat them to it and let loose a solitary round in their direction. One round was all that was needed - scratch one MMG team!

The other MMG team (yellow circle) is exhausted and rattled, so I think I'll leave them be for a few turns. Hopefully they can get themselves fixed for when I start dropping smoke!

My two remaining half tracks on that side of the river both continue to be very nervous. One remained out of control and sped towards the river (orange arrow), I half expected him to drive headfirst into the river, but thankfully he spared my embarassment by slamming on his breaks at the last moment. He is still panicked and still within view of BDs northern R35, so I don't think he is out of trouble just yet!

My other halftrack faired slightly better. He waited around long enough to let the two man AT team board, firing his MG in the general direction of the farm, then reversed towards the rear edge of the map (red arrow), out of sight of all known enemies.

A rather stranger thing happened back at my buildings. One of my rifle squads boarded the half track parked in front of the northern building (according to plan), then the half track driver decided to take them on a little tour towards the rear edge of the map (not according to plan). On the way they drove through the fence, passed inbetween my MMG team and their supporting half track, and ended up in plain view of BDs northern R35! (blue arrow)

Those paying close attention will also note that the armoured sound contact has moved forwards towards the southern barn (white circle). Is it another R35? Is it a STuG? Only time will tell, or maybe my still panicked man in the corner there will man up and come back under control.....

[Penry]

Orders:

Not much this turn. Those men that aren't getting exhausted and/or aren't getting rattled are few and far between! I've got threeish minutes until the next lot of reinforcements arrive and fourish minutes until the first smoke barrage occurs.....

Bazooka team on the right flank - join up with rifle squad mates and then crawl up the hill.

Second platoon HQ - retreat back down the riverbank, they seem to be in view of BDs north R35!

Rifle squad in runaway halftrack - acquire bazooka and four rounds, then jump ship and head for the trees (orange arrow)!

Runaway halftrack - wait five seconds for rifle squad to get off, then speed towards buildings (yellow and blue arrow). I just hope I can't run over my own men.....

[womble]

I know that the answer is concentration of force and overwhelm his defences, it is just that I'm unable to get that concentration. There are very few positions with any decent cover, and those that are are very small and isolated. To add to the conundrum, there is the continued presence of BDs R35s on both flanks, which can overlook the vast majority of the battlefield. This sure is a tough nut to crack!

How long til your smoke arrives? Don't forget that your on-board mortars have smoke that can arrive next turn; it's not very much, but it's better than nothing.

On the other side of the river things didn't go quite so well! My front MMG team in the woods were just recovering their morale after BDs little mortar strike ended, and were just setting up to open fire on BDs AT gun, when the AT gun beat them to it and let loose a solitary round in their direction. One round was all that was needed - scratch one MMG team!

Here's an excellent little tutorial of combined arms in action: the mortars suppressed you, giving the ATG time to kill your team. It's also a poor example of how an MG team isn't the best thing to lead an attack with: the chances are this result would have come about even without the assistance of the mortar. As you say, you need to concentrate your force, not squeeze it forward, piecemeal.

The other MMG team (yellow circle) is exhausted and rattled, so I think I'll leave them be for a few turns. Hopefully they can get themselves fixed for when I start dropping smoke!

Still, their condition will matter little, if they're the only thing to be fired upon.

My two remaining half tracks on that side of the river both continue to be very nervous.

This is the natural state of half tracks. You're new, so you won't have seen the many threads talking about how half tracks were mostly used in WW2. To summarise the state of halfies in-game (whether that's historically accurate or not is for all those other threads ): they're (especially the US ones) not very well protected and should only be used as fire support from extreme range in most cases; they simply won't advance into effective fire, and that's probably a very good thing from the perspective of your pTruppen. You're finding out about their tin-thin armour and open top vulnerability the hard way.

Generally, it's better to advance your troops dismounted. They have a better chance (though perhaps only slightly better on this map, which is admittedly pretty bare) of remaining unspotted. If they come under small arms fire, their casualties will be no worse than if they stayed in their coffin-shaped bullet magnets. If they're under the muzzles of heavier weapons, their dispersal and (if you've split them into squads, as I'd always recommend) multiplicity of targets will mean their casualties are markedly reduced. On the other side of the sights, they can employ their own firepower more effectively to suppress soft opposition. Sure, they get where they're going with some fatigue accrued, but at least they stand a chance of getting there to catch their breath, and hopefully "there" is somewhere relatively safe for a minute or two.

[Baneman]

Also note that crawling will tire your men out VERY quickly - especially AT teams like bazooka guys etc. They'll probably be tired within 2 AS's, 3 at most.

That crawl-up-to-the-trees you showed looks like a LOOONG way. You'd be better off QUICKing them there. If it's completely open and under fire, FAST may be better - they'll still end up tired, but probably not as badly as for the crawl.

In my AAR on the BN board, there's the sorry tale of a schreck team that I crawled a couple of AS which got them tired. Then the enemy were nearby. Took me about 15 turns to get them out of the field, crawling 1 AS every 3 or 4 turns whenever they recovered back to Tiring or Ready.

[womble]

Absolutely. That sort of advance is probably best conducted in bounding overwatch if there's any chance of cover while stationary. Any shooters will hopefully then be losing spotting contact and having to acquire the next moving element, eating away at the amount of time they have to actually shoot at you.

If prone troops are no more hidden than moving ones, you're going to have to trust to getting there quickly to minimise casualties. Just don't use Fast, as that wears them out at the beginning of their run and they end up Fatigued or Exhausted at the top, rather than just Tired.

[Penry]

@ womble

Smoke is arriving in 3 and 5 minutes (north and south)

Thanks for the tip about halftracks. I remember coming up against one of BDs German halftracks in our very first QB game. It sure seemed a hell of a lot toughter than these paper bags! Can you define 'extreme range'? I'll keep it in mind for future games....

How do you do bounding overwatch in FI? I don't seem to be able to split my squads up as much as in BN. Is this something to do with the TO&E in Italy? Once I split off the two AT men, the other men don't seem to be able to split. I'm sure I could split squads into three in BN, or am I imagining things?

@ Baneman

Thanks for the tip about movement and fatigue. I haven't ignored your comment this turn, I'm just too scared to get them up from a prone position. Too many dead men already in this game!

[Penry]

Turn 13

Unlucky for...... oh yeah, ME!!! :rant:

I mean really? I come home from a crap day at work, have a cup of tea, then switch on the computer to try to unwind with a bit of CM. Maybe not the best idea I know, but all I was doing was looking for a glimmer of hope in the situation, and all I got were two big WTF moments!

WTF 1

My bazooka armed rifle squad successfully jumped out of the back of the halftrack and were setting off on their little run to the 'safety' of the trees, when BD decided to spoil their party with a single main round form the norther R35. And who should be right in the centre of his crosshairs? Why the bazooka carrier of course! Scratch four men and send the rest of the squad running away, back over the fence.

Not content with ruining that party BDs R35 unleashed another main round when my men had finally finished crapping their pants. Direct hit! Add another GI to the tally! And all because, for some unknown reason, the halftrack decided to go walkabouts when it was in a perfectly safe position in amongst the buildings......

WTF 2

But the first WTF pales into insignificance compared to this second one. My two man bazooka team on the other side of the river set off to play catch up with their crawling buddies. Do they take the direct route? Nah, that would be too easy. Much better to do a lap of the halftrack first, just to warm up those tired legs don't you know. Just as the bazooka carrier gets around the front of the halftracks he takes a deflected small arms round to the chest and promptly snuffs it! I mean, not even a round intended for him, just a stray round that pinged off the side armour of the bloody hafltrack! I seriosuly beginning to wonder if BD selected the 'Extract the urine out of Penry' option for this game. How much worse can it get? Don't answer that please!

[Penry]

The only ray of brightness in the whole turn was that my MGers at the bottom of the hill, by my buildings, caused BDs Italians some more grief, but just the run of the mill type of grief. No ricocheting rounds off old trees I'm afraid, no three men with one bullet, and not even a headless chicken dance to be seen, just some fairly intense fire as they ran away. Two more dead Italians now litter the hilltop, but I in no way feel compensated for the other events from this turn!

And so here is the overview for this turn. My runaway halftrack made it back to its parking lot by the buildings. My HQ team are crawlign through the mud to the riverbank, and my crawling rifle squad are getting closer to their destination.

If you look closely you might also see that BD is trying to set up a welcoming party with his armour. Please don't tell me he is going to manage to thread it through the trees!

[Penry]

Orders:

Did I say that I had few possibilities last turn? That turn seems like a fruitful bounty compared to this turn. So much so that it hardly seems worth a screenie.

Survivor from two man bazooka team - try to scavenge the bazooka from his fallen comrade.

Rest of the rifle squad - continue crawling up the hill. I acknowledge that this is going to knacker them out, but I'm just too scared to get them to stand up. I don't think I can take another slaughter!

Rifle team in my building. Nip out to acquire the bazooka from the other halftrack parked up. Fingers crossed for no sight seeing tours of the cemetery I am hastily erecting.....

Did I mention that I rolled a morale check and got a critical failure?

[womble]

Smoke is arriving in 3 and 5 minutes (north and south)...

That'll help open up your maneuver options, I'm sure. For a while. Just don't forget that BD can possibly move out from behind the screen...

Thanks for the tip about halftracks. I remember coming up against one of BDs German halftracks in our very first QB game. It sure seemed a hell of a lot toughter than these paper bags! Can you define 'extreme range'? I'll keep it in mind for future games....

IME, if you're fighting infantry you want to be at least 400-500m away. Outside of effective rifle range. But if they have MMGs or HMGs that range goes up. In a recent PBEM, the MG platoon of my Italian Battalian drove off several M2/M3 chassis, including 2 T30s from the cover of buildings and hedges. Either the driver paniced and reversed off (headless chicken-style) or the entire crew paniced and debussed (which allowed my crappy Semoventes to brew up the unresisting chassis). This at about 400m range. For my money, american half tracks should only be brought up as fire support if you've already got the upper hand in the fire superiority contest; they can tip the balance to complete superiority very quickly, and maintain the pin while your infantry maneuver to concluding positions.

German halftracks are, from the front, somewhat more resilient than American ones. They still suffer horribly if there's any plunging element to the incoming, and can take passenger and crew casualties from surprising angles. This factor is currently under investigation, I understand, by BFC. At least, they've been made aware of it.

One thing that I "feel" is important for calming down your skittish halfies is having infantry between them and the incoming. They seem (I'll emphasise that this is just an impression gained and could be wrong) to be less likely to back off when an enemy contact pops up in front of them if they have some firends around for security.

How do you do bounding overwatch in FI? I don't seem to be able to split my squads up as much as in BN. Is this something to do with the TO&E in Italy?

I believe it's because you have 8-man Armoured Infantry squads, which do only have 2 teams at that stage of the war.

BN american squads tend to be 12 man.

But if you're stuck this way, do your bounding overwatch by squads. What I was describing wasn't so much an arrangement to provide security by having a static fire base to cover the moving element, as a way of giving your troops a chance to get "unspotted" and making your enemy reaquire them. Keeping the squads split is good, though, as it spreads your dogfaces out and means they won't take as many casualties when the R35 fires HE at the single man it does spot. It might even be better to remerge the AT team and split to 2 4-man teams for this purpose.

[c3k]

Penry,

Oh, these are the turns that test one's mettle. Nice...for him. Just console yourself with all the hurt you're doing to his men that you just can't see. False comfort is better than no comfort, no?

R35's: There was a reason why tanks (helped) turn the tide of WWI's trench warfare. A mobile cannon and machinegun behind armor is DEADLY. Sure, it's just got a little ol' popgun and a finicky Italian machinegun. But it is impervious to your small arms and (probably) your light mortar. As far as you're concerned, they're like miniature death stars! Your best weapon against it would be the .50's on your halftracks, and those from the flank or rear. If your tactics DEPEND on a bazooka, you're already in a bit of a bind.

SLOW moving: You're going to kill your men. They'll end up Fatigued and Exhausted. (Whichever is worse.) Keeping them low may be necessary. In that case, one action spot, then a turn or THREE of rest, then another action spot. They won't get anywhere soon. Better, possibly, to HUNT with a tight covered arc, then SLOW one action spot (just to get them away from the last seen position). Wait a turn, then repeat.

My .02. And I've got a pocketful of change leftover.

Ken

[Penry]

womble, thanks once again for your invaluable advice! I really should have started posting over here at BFC when I first picked up CM2, I'd be streets ahead of where I am now if I had!

c3k, LOL, indeed, I'll take as much comfort as I can, false or otherwise! So much of this game is played out in the commander's mind, so if I can trick it, even the slightest bit, then it can only reap rewards - I hope!

I feel a bit of a prat now, taking the Michael out of BDs R35s. As puny as they look, they are still the strongest thing on the battlefield at the moment, unless BDs STuG is hidden somewhere, ready to deliver the coup de grace.

Once again noted about the slow moving. It's too late to prevent exhaustion, and I'll feel a lot safer and better under cover of those trees just ahead.....

[Penry]

Turn 14

It's oh so quiet.

It's oh so still......

Really not much happened this turn, which is a blessed relief after the BS of last turn. Nice to be able to come home from a reasonable day at work and get to review a turn without the blood pressure soaring. I did, of course, lose the obligatory man, one of the two survivors from the runaway halftrack fiasco. Both survivors converged on the bloke who got a direct R35 hit while he was lying by the side of road. This of course wasn't the most intelligent thing for them to do, it's not as if there would be much left of their fallen comrade, and BDs R35 was only too happy to pop off another round and another direct hit (red line and circle)!

On the other side of the valley my crawling rifle squad are very nearly at the edge of the forest. They have started to draw the attention of a few of BDs farmyard defenders, but so far so good, and all the rounds have wizzed over the top of them harmlessly. (yellow arrows)

The only other items of note are another screeching round landing in the middle of nowhere (blue star). I'm not too sure what BD is up to here, my only guess is that he's trying to zero in on my building area.

Rather worryingly, BDs armour in the southern forest is inching its way through the forest with slow, but sure, progress......

[Penry]

Orders:

Not much again.

My crawling rifle squad are approx 15m from the forest edge. Hang in there boys!

Bazooka team survivor - join the halftrack by the rivers edge in an effort to man the MG.

That is all!

Hopefully I'll get those reinforcements soon.....

[Penry]

Turn 15

Hmmmmmmm, interesting! All of a sudden the sun has come out from behind the clouds. Let's hope there are no sunshowers forecast.....

Another fairly quiet turn, with once again the single casualty on my part. At least BD is consistent!

What I thought was a stray arty round from BD is now looking like a spotting smoke round for me, either that or I am totally confused! I have indicated the direction and length of the drift (red arrow), so if I can get some on target then I should have some good cover, as it is pretty thick! A second round landed nearby (red star) near the end of the round. It will be interesting to see how long the smoke hangs around for and whether it will form a curtain across that area of the battlefield.

What seems like a bit of clarity to the north of the river was thrown into murkiness by the arrival of a similar round in the southern forest (black star). Surely that can't be a spotting round that far of target? On the other hand maybe BD is calling in a welcome comittee for my kneckered rifle squad?

What is certain is that that sound armour contact isn't a figment of someone's imagination! Near the end of the turn one of the halftracks amongst my buildings started to receive some incoming small arms fire. Tracing the direction of fire back (white line) leads directly to the sound contact. I guess that BD can see me, but I can't see him yet. I also noticed what looked like a light mortar round impacting in the trees in that location too, but I'm unsure whether it is an incoming round, or indeed BDs sound contact armour tried to fire its main gun, but hit a tree instead?

As for my casualty of the turn. The very last man to reach the 'safety' of the southern forest didn't quite make it, falling victim to the flurry of small arms fire that was tracking the squad for the last thirty or so metres. My burning halftrack did an awesome job of getting in the way of a number of rounds, so I'm glad that it wasn't a total waste of a good bit of hardware. I like to think that it saved the life of at least one more man!

My men are now totally knackered, so they will now enjoy a well earned rest, I hope.

[Penry]

Best news of the turn though was the arrival of some more reinforcements, and some meaty ones at that!

Now, I've never seen these things before, but I'm guessing they are the WWII version of a tin can with a BFG glued on top! I'm sure going to wrap them in cotton wool and treat them as if my mission depends on them, which I guess it does. If I can neutralise BDs R35s, then life is going to become at lot easier for me. I might even be able to exert some pressure on the farmyard! But let's not get ahead of ourselves eh!

Orders:

My two new tank destroyers will hunt forward, while focusing on BDs northern R35. Keep your fingers crossed please readers!

Two hafltracks (white and yellow arcs) will open area fire on the suspected hidden armour location.

MMG (black arc) will open area fire on the suspected hidden armour location.

Mortar team can actually trace a line of sight (red line and cross) to just besides the location fo the hidden armour contact. Go on, have a chew!

[John Kettler]

Penry,

I think the best equivalency I can provide is that T30s, which aren't (75mm GMC M3 in reality; T30s have short 75mm howitzer, hence HMC) are U.S. Marders, though somewhat better protected than certain Marder models. As such, they are the American incarnation of JasonC's eloquently put "eggshells with hammers," especially against R35s, where the 75mm gun so grossly outmatches the armor struck.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Penry]

'Eggshells with hammers' - awesome! I like the sound of the hammer part, not so much the eggshell. I presume the 75mm gun will be adequate against BDs STuG, if/when I come up against it.