Thomm Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 Finally a ISOMETRIC World War II Real Time Tactical Game !! Check out "Sudden Strike": http://www.cdv.de Does not look realistic, but might be fun - who knows ?! Screenshots: http://www.cdv.de/spiele/suddenstrike/bilder/screen1_1.jpg http://www.cdv.de/spiele/suddenstrike/bilder/screen2_1.jpg http://www.cdv.de/spiele/suddenstrike/bilder/screen3_1.jpg http://www.cdv.de/spiele/suddenstrike/bilder/screen4_1.jpg http://www.cdv.de/spiele/suddenstrike/bilder/screen5_1.jpg http://www.cdv.de/spiele/suddenstrike/bilder/screen6_1.jpg http://www.cdv.de/spiele/suddenstrike/bilder/screen7_1.jpg http://www.cdv.de/spiele/suddenstrike/bilder/screen8_1.jpg http://www.cdv.de/spiele/suddenstrike/bilder/screen9_1.jpg http://www.cdv.de/spiele/suddenstrike/bilder/screen10_1.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 People here are going to tear that game to pieces.... it says it's going to be "extremely realistic." And on their message board there are folks asking for factories to build units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 Looks like a C&C clone for sure. However, it looks like a REALLY COOL C&C clone I'll be following this one for sure! As far as the "realism" thing goes, I assume that it will be realistic only compared to other RTS games. Against either CC or CM it can not be compared. Call this a very likely guess Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 When they showed Elefants in the middle of towns and discussed how you could call in paratroops in the middle of the game (as well as strategic aerial bombardments) I knew what realism level it was playing at . Still, looks like a nice C&C clone set in WW2. I wouldn't mind a fun little game like that if they carry it through well. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBlaster Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 Hehe, I couldn't resist to post on their BB and mention CM at the same time Anyone else notice the other "game" on their site? "Days of Oblivion II"? Hehe..nice screenshots Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 I'll say this, that is one good looking battlefield. That's the thing about 3D, with current technology it can't be made to look as intricate and minutely detailed as really good 2D graphics. Well, not without mega horsepower, and PC's don't have that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted October 12, 1999 Author Share Posted October 12, 1999 This game is the proof that serious wargaming can only be done in 3D ! The screenshots proof that even in isometric projection you do not get any impression of what the terrain looks like in the 3rd dimension. Actually I think that it is more or less flat, anyway. Thus it becomes more and more clear that Combat Mission is indeed the (near) future of serious and universal wargaming. Nevertheless I think that an isometric graphic engine will have it's advantages in terms of eye-candiness in certain situations like e.g. city-fighting. This is why I DO look forward to trash this cute little houses ! Regards, Thomm PS: Have you noticed the Sturmtiger in screenshot 10 ! I bet there will be some rarity penalty on that one ... NOT (hehe) ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 This game falls into what I term "fun games". Yes, it is a wargame, a cooler version of the Command & Conquer genre, but not anywhere on par with CM. Will I buy it? If it pans out to play half decent, maybe. Looks like fun except that prone infantry look like "road squirrels" who have been run over way too many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 What boggles my mind is the claim that there will be up to 1,000 units in play at one time and it will run in real, uh, continuous time. I think they count individual soldiers as units. I didn't see any evidence of squad or fire team groups. Also you can see how big these maps are by comparing the viewed area with the highlighted box in lower left on the overview map. I can't believe anyone can control that many units on such large maps. I just finished a CC1 campaign and had a hard time keeping up with the 20+ units I had there. PS did anyone else see that CDV is the publisher for Tiberian Sun in Germany and their other big product "Wet Attack?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomm Posted October 12, 1999 Author Share Posted October 12, 1999 Dear Cunningham ! If you browse their German discussion forum you will find out that the developers themselves do not know how the units will be controlled ("we think of introducing group control"). Hui, that's funny ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeO Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 Has anyone read the FAQ on their site? It says SS is: 'no longer a mere real-time strategy game but should be seen as a tactical simulation...' Well, we'll see about that! Also mentions the tactical battles can take place within a strategic campaign structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 In C&C I often had around 100 units or so under my command, but not control This is why the "Tank Rush" tactic is so hard to beat if the position being attacked doesn't have lots of things to screw up the lame path finding. Because once a Tank Rush runs into such things the attacker has as much, if not more, or a problem controlling things. And if someone attacks his base at the same time... not easy! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixman Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 From CDV's FAQ on Sudden Strike: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Q: Certain German authorities are having problems with war games. Other games published by CDV Germany like DOOM or Duke Nukem have already been indexed. Will German players have to buy Sudden Strike from other contries? Will there be a special release for Germany? A: Except for the language there will be no special releases anywhere. Besides, Sudden Strike should not be seen as a war game but as an anti-war game. Due to the realism of the game the player feels the loss of every soldier that he has to sacrifice for the greater good.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey Steve and Charles, extending this logic, with CMs level of realism, you guys should get the Nobel Peace Prize for stopping war forever. But, seriously, I thought I read somewhere on this board that blood could not be depicted in a computer game sold in Germany. If that's the case, then how are they going to simulate the gruesome details? Sounds more like a canned response dreamed up by a Marketing guy talking to an Attorney. Pixman (or if you are Fionn, Pixley ) ------------------ Fact is the enemy of truth. - Don Quixote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 The laws in Germany are not known to me in their exact detail. I saw the Command and Conquer version from Germany, and there was no blood. In fact, they changed the graphics and concept so that the soldiers running around were suposedly robots. This might have been a very cautious move on their part. When we localized Civil War Generals for Germany I don't remember what we did for the graphics. I just remember telling the translator to make the damned words shorter so they could fit in the interface Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 Fionn, Duhh. The partroopers can be called in during middle of game, because the axis and allied airfields are within 100 yards of every city. Elephants are supposed to be in towns don't ya know. I would put an elpephant smack dab in the middle of town for maximum effectiveness, taking full advantage of the elephant's superior mobility. I would also surround the elephant with flak guns to eliminate immediately any threat from foot soldiers and paratroopers and bombers. Richard Kalajian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS was 71331 Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 If those screen shots were taken during a game, the game designers are allowing totally unrealistic unit densities. In some battle shots, the AFVs were closer together than you could park them in a motor pool! And their airborne drops had the 'chutes touching one another. (At first I thought I was looking at some sci-fi game with large white mushrooms devouring a town.) The graphics look good -- but wrong. I'd wait to see a demo before I'd order this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 "extremely realistic" It's amazing what two words can do to a game that otherwise might be really fun to play, look good and sell well. Now, measured by its own standards, the game might simply suck. But I'm going to give it a fair chance at least and hope for the best until I see the demo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted October 12, 1999 Share Posted October 12, 1999 I like screen7. Looks like a top down shot from planet of the apes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted October 13, 1999 Share Posted October 13, 1999 "Get your stinkin paws off me you, you damn dirty ape" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 13, 1999 Share Posted October 13, 1999 Martin, VERY true. See, I'd be quite willing to try this game as a fun little diversion if it marketed itself as a fun diversion BUT once it starts talking about ultra-realism etc it gets me "anti false marketing" sensors up. NOW instead of people saying.. Oh, it's like CC3 and is quite a lot of fun but not too realistic they are going to have people attacking to them for lieing in the marketing etc. Anyways, I think it's just like a C&C clone which might be a bit of fun for gamers. One thing I'll say to people is that if they ARE looking for a fun game to play which is tough they should check out Armies of Armaggedon here... I've been beaten six times in a row by the AI on the second scenario (and the first was a bloody tutorial scenario.. stop laughing you ! It's TOUGH I tell you. ).. it's quick, fun and bloody tough... Anyways, I should go now.. I'll let ya'll know once I put up a proper review but I'd suggest you take a look at it and the demo. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Oberly Posted October 13, 1999 Share Posted October 13, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I've been beaten six times in a row by the AI on the second scenario (and the first was a bloody tutorial scenario.. stop laughing you ! It's TOUGH I tell you. )..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Is this out yet?I have it pre-ordered.Further off topic,a *great* RTS game is Age of Kings(Age of Empires II).I never thought I'd play a RTS game again,but this one is done about as well as one can be done,and it has the most flawless interface I've seen in any game.And it even has several military formations(line,square,etc). Mike [This message has been edited by Mike Oberly (edited 10-12-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hnh3 Posted October 13, 1999 Share Posted October 13, 1999 You HAVE to like a game that has 'squeeze gunners'! Acht du lieber! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest R Cunningham Posted October 14, 1999 Share Posted October 14, 1999 I downloaded and watched the (pre-alpha, non-playable) video/demo thing. It was revealing. You can download it from Gamespot (24 MB) Fionn, you can get your scalpel out because "extremely realistic" this will not be. But I would think that the developers would be quick to admit that this game is not meant to compete with CM or even CC and they would quickly back away from claims of ultra realism when challenged. Relative to C&C et al. it might be considered realistic because it has historical units and not hover tanks, mole tanks etc. I wonder, though, what the market for this game will be, since it won't have the level of detail/accuracy wargamers want and it won't have the resource gathering aspect that has been part of the RTS formula since the days of DuneII. The overall impression I have of the game is that it is cute. I can't think of anything that better describes what it looks like to me. If it came out tomorrow I might get it, but CC4 and CM should be out before it gets released and if I'm playing them I won't have any time to mess with Sudden Strike. Some of the things I noticed: Units have the ubiquitous damage bar showing how much damage they've taken. Infantry drop to ground when fired on but I didn't any noticeable effect (enhanced survivability). Panzerschrecks are not belt-fed ala unpatched CC3 but they do appear to be bolt action. ROF is rather high. They have a nice little ricochet effect for the bullets that are hitting tanks. Any tank appears to be able to kill any tank but I didn't a single one-shot kill. Mortars look to be particularly effective as their rounds do damage just like tank rounds. Soldiers can kill tanks with grenades. Tanks have one kind of ammo: that which goes boom. If a tank shoots at a tank there is an explosion that actually looks pretty good with a crater and fountain of dirt. But I can't tell if all shots hit, or if the near misses are also inflicting damage. Soldiers will fire their rifles at tanks and stand their ground until killed. Officers will fire their pistols at tanks (unable to determine if they cause any damage) The Sturmtiger has a rocket that arcs on its way to the target. All explosions, whether from bombs, tank rounds, mortar rounds, or grenades were all the same size. The AI reminded me of CC in that tanks will expose sides and rears to the enemy (but in this game that is meaningless) and AT guns will fire at infantry when tanks are bearing down on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gespenster Posted October 14, 1999 Share Posted October 14, 1999 The link to download the non playable demo of Sudden Strike is http://www.gamespot.com/strategy/suddenst/index.html I downloaded and watched it last night as well, and I think it has alot of potential. Obviously the demo is just a demo, and I hope to God that the actual game isn't like that. But the graphics are excellent for this type of game, and the very nice detailed buildings and houses can be entered and used for cover... even when damaged, the buildings still look incredible. My only concern is resource management... if they have factorys churning out units like in C&C this game will be a definate bust. But if they can develope an interface similar to that of CC and allow only a certain number of Units, it could be interesting. The Maps are HUGE, and could easily provide Infantry companies to contain up to 50 men or more. This would be excellent to simulate the Russian hordes that were thrown into battle on the Eastern Front, the Vehicle detail I thought was good, heck I think I even saw a Brumbar in there. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the developers will tweak this engine and make a good quality REALISTIC WWII game... but somehow I think that they will not, and you will be able to take the field with 100 Jadgtigers (which would be cool) but not very accurate. Either way, it's not on the same level with CM (hopefully Jason ------------------ Those who forget our history, are doomed to repeat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 14, 1999 Share Posted October 14, 1999 Sudden Strike appears to just be Command and Conquer with WW2 units. It's wargaming for beginners. We all started off with simple games like that in which we learnt "Wow, Tigers are hard to kill" and then graduated on to "real wargames" like CM. personally I hope they sell really, really well since I view ever Sudden Strike player as a potential convert . I view Close Combat players as wargamers I just hope they'll check out more umm accurate and realistic wargames whilst waiting for the next release of CC.. No-one will come right from Quake to Combat Mission without ever having played any other wargames or quasi-wargames which is why I am always happy to see people playing quasi-wargames since in a couple of years they just might be duking it out with us in the Steppes of Russia . ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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