Gespenster

Severe, Not that it is any of your business ... But, my wife and I both visited Normandy in the Spring of '94 for the 50th anniversary (I was stationed in Germany at the time). We only had a few days then, so to me this trip was much better. Beside the fact that she hadn't seen her parents in 6 years (and they had yet to see our 3 year old son) So her choice not to come and to let me hang out with my friends was ok with me. ~G ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 06-04-2000).]

In answer to your question, all the German cemetaries we visited were open to the public, and were very nicely maintained. At the German Military Cemetary near the village of Simonskall (In the heart of the Hürtgen Forest) We were suprised to see grave stones of an entire family ... Father, Mother, and 2 sons, one of which was just 3 years old. And although thier headstones looked the same as the Soldaten ... they looked quite out of place in the Military Cemetary, and we couldn't help but wonder what the story was behind the family as we placed flowers near the gravestones and went on our way ... Just another tragedy I suppose ... ~G ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 06-03-2000).]

See post below ... ~G [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 06-02-2000).]

Yes, the cemetaries and the land they are on are owned by various Governments. This includes the German Military Cemetary at La Cambe as well, where Michael Wittman (and his crew are buried) it is owned and maintained by the German Government. The best way to take a "tour" of Normandy is on your own, organized tours are too expensive, and you don't get enough time to REALLY look at the sites. This past February, myself, my wife, Son, and 3 friends flew to Mannheim, Germany (got tics for $225 each, what a steal). We dropped my wife and son off in Mannheim with her parents (she is from there). Then myself and my friends rented a car and drove to Normandy ... we visited Omaha, Utah, Gold, Sword, Juno, Bayeux, St. Lo, Caen (The Atlantic Wall Museum north of Caen is VERY impressive), Dieppe, and Dunquirke (sp?), Normandy American Cemetary, German Cemetary at La Cambe, then drove East through Belgium and back into Germany saw the Hürtgen Forest battle area, German and American Cemetaries, and the town of Schmidt,(where we actually dug up some German equipment w/ our metal detector in the woods outside of Schmidt, 8mm rounds, casings, pieces of a gas mask canister, and pieces of a canteen, and actually found a German water purification tablet container dated 1942 lying next to a tree in the area of our dig ... it was incredible) After that, we drove back down into Belgium to Bastonge, Malmedy, and St. Vith ... from there we went into Luxembourg to the American Cemetary (Resting place of Gen. Patton), then back into Germany through Trier, and on to Remagen. We finished up the trip with a stop at the Panzermuseum in Münster ... and then back to Mannheim. It was the trip we had all dreamed about since we were kids, and I got it all on videotape! It was alot of driving, but we split the time between the four of us, and it was well worth every mile ... total trip time was 12 days visiting battlefields, and 2 days visiting in-laws... hehehehe. But an experience I will never forget. ~G ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 06-02-2000).] [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 06-02-2000).]

Some say he lost the War and won immortality ... What about Robert E. Lee? What kind of man was he who nearly split the history of the United States down the middle and made two separate books of it? They say you had to see him to believe that a man so fine could exist. He was handsome. He was clever. He was brave. He was gentle. He was generous and charming, noble and modst, admired and beloved. He had never failed at anything in his upright soldier's life. He was a born winner, this Robert E. Lee. Except for once. In the greatest contest of his life, in the war beween the South and the North, Robert E. Lee lost. Now (after the Surrender) there were men who came with smouldering eyes to Lee and said: "Let's not accept this result as final. Let's keep our anger alive. Let's be grim and unconvinced, and wear our bitterness like a medal. You can be our leader in this." But Lee shook his head at those men. "Abandon your animosities," he said, "and make your sons Americans." This is one of my favorite quotes of all time, and it signifies just what kind of man Lee was ... I have admired Robert E. Lee since I was a child, to me he represented all that was good and pure in 19th Century America. Growing up in Virginia, my Great Grandfather used to tell me stories about his Grandfathers experiences in the great Civil War, he had his Grandfathers journal (which I still have today). And every week he would read me a passage from it ... it makes many, many mentions of General Lee ... and how his men loved and respected him. I cannot think of another leader in U.S. History so beloved as Gen. Lee was. Germanboy, I think after the surrender he felt more for the souls lost than he did about losing the War ... That would be more in tune to what type of man he actually was. Anyway, sorry to bore all of you with the long post ... But I still would like to see BS do a Civil War game with this engine ... ~G ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee

30, married, 3 year old son ... Gulf War Vet ... WWII/U.S. Civil War reenactor, and old time Grog. ~G ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee

Ashburn, Va ... Loudoun County ~G ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee

"Band of Brothers" by Ambrose is good as well ... ~G ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee

I pre-ordered CM during the time of that offer, and never received anything or heard anything about it ... I'm curious as well, are you guys still planning on sending the Panther print with the final version of CM? ~G P.S. I'm sure the Credit Card I used at that time is no longer valid, is there a place to go to re-enter my info? ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee

Good call juju ... I forgot about the Swords, so I guyess there were actually 4 different classes ... jeez! The only reason I questioned the fact that Hitler awarded all Knight's Crosses is because I am friends with a Knight's cross holder (Hpt. Eberhardt Schmalz, awarded the Knight's Cross in Apr. 1945) in Prague (hospital) and it was not awarded by Hitler or Himmler, but considering those were the last days of the War, I can imagine that they had other things going on. Thanks for the info, I guess you learn something new every day. ~G ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee

Michael, I have never heard that the Knight's cross was awarded only by Hitler, there were many occasions of it being awarded on all fronts, I doubt Hitler could have made it to all those places ... where did you hear that? ... as for the award itself, it had 3 different classes, Knights Cross, Cross w/ Oak leaves, Cross w/ Oak Leaves and Clusters, and the Cross with Oak Leaves clusters and Diamonds being the highest level (comparable to the Medal of Honor for the US). That is what I believe Galland was awarded. ~G ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 05-23-2000).] [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 05-23-2000).]

Steve, you saying that there are no trees in Italy? hehehehe ... (just kidding ) Now that I think about it, you are probably dead on with your guess of Southern Russia in 41-42. Good call ... ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee

Ummm, yeah! what he said! ~G ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee

The award in question is the Knights Cross of the Iron Cross. The Officer in the middle is wearing his in the correct manner ... the other two were probably just awarded the Medals shortly before the photo was taken. You were allowed to wear your awards in this manner for 24hrs after it was awarded. I'm sure the Officer in the middle is merely giving them a well deserved "Congrats" and/or "Welcome to the club" pat on the back, for winning one of the most highly coveted awards given in the German Army. Oh, and they are probably members of the infamous Herman Göring Division, the Luftwaffe's elite ground division. And the pic was most likely taken in Italy/Sicily. Although I noticed that all three men are wearing the early style Panzer Wrap, which could mean the photo was taken much earlier. Cool pic BTW. ~G ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 05-23-2000).]

Sorry, double post ... [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 05-18-2000).]

Hey James, As I said in my earlier post, VMVM is only open to the public twice a year, once in the Spring and once in the Fall (They have to be open to the public a minimum of twice a year to maintain their museum status) You just missed the Spring open house, it was open on May 6. The next open house will be sometime this Fall, I will post a note to this board when I get a confirmed date. During the open house they usually have a guest speaker, (usually a Veteran) and they talk about the War and their experiences ... This past event they had a USMC veteran who spoke about the War in the Pacific (followed by an AMTrack exibition), and then they follow the talk with an exibition of sorts ... Most of the tanks drive by the crowd while the narrators describe it. I am very much looking forward to this Falls show, they are planning on having a German Panzer Veteran speaking, and our reenactment Unit will be doing a firing exibition ... should be fun, email me if you like or just wait for the post. ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee

I live in Northern Virginia, and have traveled to Aberdeen many times. It is indeed a great place to visit. Although it makes me quite sad to see the condition in which all these pieces of History are in ... just rotting away in the sun. They are supposedly trying to restore each vehicle one at a time, but it is taking forever ... the Rail Gun (Anzio Annie) is quite sweeet, and has been redone, But I have no idea which vehicles are currently under restoration (if any). On my last trip to back to Mannheim I did have the privilidge of visiting the Panzermuseum at Münster, and all I could say was WOW! That place is absolutely incredible, the Koenigstiger is just incredible, and is still driveable. Another cool place to visit if you like WWII era Armor is the VMVM (Virginia Military Vehicle Museum) in Nokesville, Va. (just outside Manassas). My WWII reenacting Unit does 2 events per year there (place only open to the public twice a year) They have numerous WWII era tanks and vehicles including many Shermans, T-34's, Churchill, Cromwell, Lee, Grant, and MANY more, all in running condition. Not to many German vehicles other than a Hetzer (made in Switzerland for the German Army), a Czech Half-Track (designed from the German WWII Half-Track), and of course or reproduction SdKfz 232 (8 RAD) (property of my reenacting Unit, 96% actual size) which is very cool. BTW ... For more info on the Panzermuseum Münster visit their homepage ... http://www.panzermuseum.com/ ~G

I gave it a 95 ... there is always room for improvement in every game. ~G ------------------ "It is well that War is so terrible, lest we grow to fond of it" Robert E. Lee

I tend to agree with Zamo's assessment of the Epic Struggle that was the Civil War. It wasn't all about Slavery, there were many other things that divided the states as well. In fact, nearly 75% of all Southern Troops didn't own Slaves at all (could not afford them), including many Officers such as Robert E. Lee, who set all his his slaves free long before the first shots were fired at Ft. Sumter. In fact, Lee was offered the job of commanding the entire Union Army by President Lincoln in 1860 but waited to give his answer until he found out where his home state of Virginia would stand on the issue of succession. At that time, where you were from actually meant something being a Virginia Gentleman or a South Carolina Farmer commanded respect. Now a days, no one really cares where you are from, so people don't understand the fanatical pride that people had in their states in 19th century America. Once Virginia succeded from the Union, Lee stated that he "could never bare arms against his home state of Virginia" and turned down the position offered to him. So don't think the South fought merely to keep slaves, that is a very narrow minded assumption. After the War, Slaves (although free) weren't treated much better in the North, they were still discriminated against. I am from Virginia (and damn proud of it) I had many ancestors that fought (and died) in the US Civil War, NONE of whom owned Slaves ... And I refuse to believe that they died in vain, They will always be remembered by me and my family as Men who fought because their native soil was being invaded, (same as you would do if someone invaded your home) their traditions, and way of life were being threatened ... NOT becasue of slavery .... now that's enough about that. I too would like to see a good ACW game on the PC, Sid Myer's "Gettysburg" is an excellent game ... but not good enough. I think it would look good on CM's engine (although that would take quite a bit of work I'm sure). I also would like to see it on the Close Combat Engine, where I think the thought of mounted cavalry, cannon, and Infantry would flourish. Blood & Guts: To say the Union kicked their asses is a very bad assesment as well ... although they did win (overwhelming supplies of men and materials will do that)They certainly did not "Kick their asses" ... the War was 4 long bloody years of hell, where the Union Army suffered more than her share of casualties at places like Bull Run, Antietam, Fredericksburg, Gettysburg, and Cold Harbor. Just a thought ... Sorry for the novel folks. ~G [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 05-15-2000).] [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 05-15-2000).]

Hey now ... watch it Fionn, My wife is German, from Mannheim, and is quite silky smooth. ~G

Well said Steve, I agree totally ... the pictures I have seen while doing my research on the Eastern Front are truly horrific, and not for the faint of heart ... but I have seen photos from both sides ... to put it plainly, it was just pure hell. As for the statement that 10000 Soviets were executed for rape and other crimes againts Germans, I would have to agree w/ Major Tom and like to know from where these numbers were obtained ... it is however a fact that on the first night of the occupation of Berlin by the Soviets in May 1945 there were over 100,000 rapes reported by the German population ... to say nothing of the rapes that weren't reported ... If the Soviet Government did have rules against committing atrocities (of which I have never heard of in my 12+ years of researching the Eastern Front) I don't think anyone bothered to tell the troops. ~G [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 05-05-2000).]

My point exactly Lewis ... just plain nasty. ~G

Facial hair was indeed frowned upon by the German Army ... they liked to be perceived with that young natural "Aryan" type look ... But although it was frowned upon, it was not totally inforced ... I have a number of books that show pictures of German Soldiers with facial hair, beards, and mustaches ... Beards were seen quite often in the Kriegsmarine ... There were regulations on mustaches, most of the ones you see in books are the little square "Hitler" type mustaches. They were authorized but usually only grown by the old timers. The other type was the "Galland" or "pencil thin" mustache, that the German Ace Adolf Galland made famous in Germany. So all in all, they were worn, but as a whole ... still were not very common in the German Army. You can see a photo of Galland (and his mustache) here ... http://members.aol.com/geobat66/galland/galland.jpg ~G [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 05-05-2000).] [This message has been edited by Gespenster (edited 05-05-2000).]

"I'd be interested to know which one was which. In my terms both sides were pretty barbaric, with Germans being worse." I would have to disagree with this statement ... while I do agree that both sides committed horrid acts against one another ... The Russians were much more brutal to the German Soldiers they captured ... I've done alot of reasearch on the Eastern front, and seen enough evidence of Russian/German War crimes, including MANY photos just recently released (within the last 5 years) by the former Soviet Union of VERY graphic examples of torture and execution by Russian troops against German Troops including the cutting off of noses, beatings, castration, and just about every concievable atrocity that ones mind could generate ... Now don't get me wrong, the Germans were not "Choir Boys" by any stretch of the imagination ... but in answering the question of "which side was worse" I'd say at the very least they were probably equally guilty of atrocities against one another with the Russians having a slight edge in the brutality department ... and Don't forget that the Russians committed many horrible atrocities against thier own people as well ... especially during the early stages of the conflict ... with these kind of atrocities going on, it's easy to see why the hatred stewed on both sides ... in my opinion the Eastern Front of WWII was probably the most brutal campaign in the history of Warfare, hence another reason why so many people are facinated by it ... ~G

Hi Zamo, I spent a some time at Lewis. the M-47 that you saw was probably headed for Yakima to be used by the OPFOR (Opposing Force) these guys used M-47's as "enemy" tanks while training our Amored Units. We use to go up against them all the time in our Bradleys ... ~G