killmore Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Couple of questions: 1) Will the units that survive a battle be automatically transfered to the next battle? 2) Will the tanks/unit be upgraded like in CC? 3) If you have just a tank crew will you be able to refit them with another tank? 4) Will you be able to "purchase" units like in CC3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hoerter Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 I'll give my hand at trying to answer these, as most have been discussed to some degree in the past. 1) The operation is basically just a drive by a unit over the course of a day (or days). Ie. clearing a town, Joachim's troops attempt do drive those Yanks out of that Sanitorium in Stoumont (I'm guessing Stoumont's in to some degree likely talking garbage though). In any case, a series of fights that involved a unit over a short course of time. Pegasus Bridge might be another good candidate, reasonable sized engagement that lasted a day and a half IIRC. This included plenty of decent firefights and building exchanges. Although the Germans threw some bizarre French/German hybrids into the fray. (Hey, lets strap a bunch of 81mm mortars on the back of this here half-track; Gee, ok boss, that would be neat) 2) Units will not upgrade as the timescale is so short. Although replacements are in. I'd like to here a bit more on how replacements are modelled if someone has some spare knowledge. 3) As I understand, damaged tanks in friendly territory have a chance of being repaired/recovered. I'm not sure if you get a new tank if yours was turned to a flaming wreck. 4) Not sure on this one. I believe that pre-designed operations will not allow this. However, there are DYO operations and IIRC you have a chance to purchase from a pool of units. These pools can be set as Armored, Mechanized, and Infantry. Please point out any mistakes if I've made them. I personally think Operations will be the greatest attraction for me. I like the responsibility of retaining my troops to fight another day. If Steve or some of the other beta testers could give a nice example of an Operation, I'd appreciate it greatly! Justin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Justin, ya done good son Basically Killmore, toss out all concepts you have gathered concerning campaigns in other games. Very, very little of it applies to CM's Operations. 1. Yes, but only to the extent that that next "battle" is a couple of hours or so later. An entire Operation is probably not going to be more than a 24hr period (6-10 battles). Nothing can be transfered beyond this. 2. No. This is not only unrealistic at CC's level, but it doesn't fit in with our more focused Operations (tanks don't upgrade within a day). 3. Yes, tank crews can be outfitted with new tanks if they survive. However, the chance is REALLY low (er... zero?) if the tank was not recovered due to it being totally destroyed or in enemy territory. You can intentionally brew up an enemy vehicle, in theory, by hitting it even after you have knocked it out. 4. You can only "purchase" units in DYO (Design Your Own) battles, not premade scenarios or Operations. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Hey, lets strap a bunch of 81mm mortars on the back of this here half-track; Gee, ok boss, that would be neat<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, this was an effective weapon... 16 French 8.1cm mortars rigged to fire at the same time... instant barage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hoerter Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 I twy me besd boss, I wily willy do <pant> <pant>... Should probably pop over to CDMAG's site and pester Scott Udell into writing more about his foray into the CM's operations. Sounds like he's going through the unlearning process a bit too. His preview not long ago was quite a teaser. Justin PS That map is something! Addendum: Yeah, 16 81mm's at once would be devastating, but didn't they have a fixed spread? Still, I wouldn't be eager to do much after seeing that go off! [This message has been edited by Justin Hoerter (edited 12-14-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Actually just to make a minor clarification to what Steve is saying: Operation Length can last any number of days. in the parameters setting you select how many battles you want in your operation, (for instance one I'm working on has 9 battles). You also select how often night battles occur, (again in my operation it's every third battle) soin my case what you have is essentialy a morning, afternoon and night battl going on for three days (and yes you also set battle length, 20 minutes two hours whatever). It should be recalled that in the majority of operations(even during intense campaigns like Bulge or 6 June) people are not just sitting their all day long in intense combat, things ebb and flow wildly during the day of a soldier's life in battle. So the editor will allow you great flexiblity in this area. Cheers... Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted December 14, 1999 Author Share Posted December 14, 1999 What is the maximum number of days/battles? Can it be 100? Can you move a crew to another tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted December 14, 1999 Author Share Posted December 14, 1999 One more thing. And this one is quite important (at least to me) Is the operation strictly linear? For example if I push the enemy out map1 then the next battle will be on map 2. But Can the enemy push me back to map1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 There is no map 1,2 or 3. The entire operation takes place on one map, though there's a setting in preferences to limit how much of heh map is dispalyed in any one battle. (This helps a lot with huge maps and PC performance issues.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted December 14, 1999 Author Share Posted December 14, 1999 OK. But you can push each other forward and backward? Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Yes you can. At the end of each battle, the system calculates the new front line and adjusts the map as needed. Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Yes you can. At the end of each battle, the system calculates the new front line and adjusts the map as needed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think I saw that rubbled and burning buildings carry over from 1 battle to the next on the same map. What about shell holes and dead vehicles? -Bullethead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Shell holes and dead vehilces carry over. Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Just a few additions, hopefully not repeats (even though I did look over the post beforehand!) How about broken units. Do they keep that Exclamation mark from battle to battle? I would assume so, but, if there is enough time between engagements, and suitable reinforcements can't the squad regain it's composure? What if, a few battles after a tank was 'abandoned' they manage to recapture it. Is it possibly availible, or have their enemies stripped it of every usefull part? One question I had about he process of operations, is, what is the driving force? I know that movement and kill ratio are taken into account, but, without victory points, what is the goal of certain missions? Possibly, both commanders will start off defensive, and nothing will happen for a few turns. Maybe this is supposed to be what happens, I don't know. I can see later on in the operation, when you have a rough guess at the enemies strength, but, what will be the reason for a well entrenched force to move forward? I just don't understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 As I recall broken units get their **** back together between battles. But they don't get replacements which is neat. I'm pretty sure that a tank lost is a tank lost. At least I have not noticed one coming back. However breakdowns, stuck, immobilized vehilces with the crews in them may come back. The way it's written now you have advance, assault, and destroy. Advance is moving quickly across the map trying to get the minimum casualties, the faster yo do the higher you score. Assault is trying to take over X percent of the map and casualties come into the point mix. Destroy is pretty much wipe out the other guys side. There are kill ratios set which need to be attained. Hope that helps. Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 14, 1999 Share Posted December 14, 1999 Thanks Los for those answers. I haven't had the time to play an Operation for more than one battle, but this was a while ago when a lot of the inbetween battle stuff hadn't be coded. Killmore, an Operation of something like 9 battles will take something like a solid week (of free time) to play through. I have no idea what the cap is for number of battles, but it certainly isn't 100 days as that would take about 3 years, playing pretty much every night, to get through Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatsby Posted December 15, 1999 Share Posted December 15, 1999 Okay just to clear for me. After you play this operation you make up another operation and basically create the units you want to keep from the operation beforew... squad names and type of unit...right? Thanks John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted December 15, 1999 Share Posted December 15, 1999 Sorry, after testing operations for over two weeks I gotta jump in here. There are firefights or scenarios, small unit actions that last about an hour. These translate to what we know as single scenarios or battles. Then there are operations (what some might classify as campaigns). This is an extension of a battle. It is still small in comparison to some of the big boys you've seen. It can last for varying periods of time. For example. Team DeSobry during the Battle of the Bulge. They fought there for nearly four days. The area of fighting was basically the same. It was the town of Noville and the area (high ground surrounding it). From Noville was a straight road and about 7 miles to Bastogne. The Germans attacked and were repelled. They attacked again and were thrown back with heavy losses. Then reinforcements from the 101st arrived to stengthen DeSobry's position. They felt strong enough to go and take the high ground from the Germans and remove the threat. They failed. Again the Germans attacked and again DeSobry and the Screaming Eagles held. Now that is what BTS is calling an operation. It was a continuing series of fights in the same area in a short period of time. Were tanks replaced? Depends on settings. Were infantry losses replaced? Yes, at least partly. And what was the final outcome? Well that's history. And an operation lets you dip into history and see if you can change it. This is not a history lesson by the way. It is an example of just what an operation is. And there are so many possiblities, Carentan, Mortain, Arnhem, Eindhoven, Remagen, Falaise, the West Wall. Lots of material for bunches of operations. Be careful though, they are extremely addictive. I realized that this morning at 4:30 AM when I was saying, "okay, in this next battle is when I really get even..(Yawn, scratch, thud!)" ------------------ Wild Bill Wild Bill's Raiders Director of Scenario Design, The Gamers Net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted December 15, 1999 Share Posted December 15, 1999 "Okay just to clear for me. After you play this operation you make up another operation and basically create the units you want to keep from the operation beforew... squad names and type of unit...right?" AN operation lasts x number of battles (Battles last x number of turns). Once it's done it's done. Of course a designer can take that scenario in the game editor and make a whole new operatin out of it or what not. p.s. Bill you forgot to menti0n the part where Team Desorby (and their paras) had to pull out of Noville or get wiped out then was ambushed on the road out and nearly decimated. (I'm reading "Seven Roads to Hell" right now by Donald Burges what a great book!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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