using strikes

[thebigJ_A]

I could use some advice. I'm having some trouble with artillery and other support. Specifically, I'm having trouble making any damn use of it at all, bar certain relatively rare circumstances.

My problem is the delay. A short delay of say 4-5 minutes I can just about manage, but often it's more than that, significantly more. Add the time of getting an observer in position, and it can be upwards of twenty minutes before rounds fall on target. I don't know where I'm going to need fire twenty minutes from now, or even ten sometimes. I keep getting these situations where either the strike I called ends up no longer relevant, or the strike I need won't arrive in time to be helpful. It doesn't help that much more often than not, the only eyes I can get on target aren't a FO, so the delay is even worse.

Obviously I can target the objectives on a map, and possibly any obvious defensive locations/routes of advance (if I'm attacking or defending, respectively), but even in that second instance I'm just guessing at the beginning of the game. Almost the only times I've been able to call effective strikes during the game are when I'm defending a static line against an obvious attack. But if my line held for ten minutes waiting for the arty anyway, I probably didn't need it all that much.

I guess I'm just having trouble organizing a planning ahead in such a way as to use the tools I have usefully.

[winkelried]

don't get too frustrated - what you go through is pretty normal. a few hints based on my experience ... almost 10 years of CMxx now ;-)

try to have HQs close to the frontline so that they can call fire - sure their delay will be a bit longer than a FO, but to get the FO in position can even take longer in total.

keep the FO for your key kill zones where you will try to pin down you enemy with all possible means.

try to anticipate areas where you will need fire and call it early - e.g. call fire on the hedgerow/bocage already when you are still holding it (barely) - you still can call off fire when you still hold or fall back just in time to leave the enemy you line of defense - with a nice gift coming down :-)

try to find overview positions for your FO where you see farther and can call fire early.

keep fire orders long so that you can adjust fire - this is faster than calling a new strike. you still can cancel fire if its is too long.

don't underestimate the value of harrassing fire. in some battles i call harassing fire on potential avenues of approach already at the begin of the scenario (without delay) and keep it there as long as possible (up to 15/17 minutes IIRC).

[womble]

Big arty (the really slow-to-arrive stuff) can be called in the preplan phase, then adusted into where you actually want it to fall much quicker than an initial call. A German 150mm battery firing 2 guns on Light will last for about 45 minutes, IIRC, and adjusts in about 4min (again, IIRC) with a decent FO. So you can get some pretty nasty effect fairly quickly. You might want to preplan a 15 minute delay, and have it plaster somewhere you don't expect the FO to get eyes on to start with, since you can bring it closer, but can't send it where you can't see.

If you want to put your preplanned somewhere useful, remember that even if you don't hit anything, a stiff bombardment will generally mean that you can be sure there's no squishy threats (or possibly crunchy ones, if the calibre's large) where it's falling, and so maneuver with relative impunity.

[Rocky Balboa]

If you are playing in warrior, elite or iron mode then the artillery delay times reflect more accurately the amount of time it took to receive indirect fire. The easier modes shorten this time to some degree.There are a number of ways that you can shorten the time it takes to receive indirect fire.

One way as you mentioned is by using FO's who are in C2 and have working radios. The farther down the COC you go, the longer it takes to bring in that support.

Another way is to use TRP's (Target reference points). These are purchased just like any other unit and placed during the setup phase. Any fire mission within 50 meters of the TRP will arrive faster and be more accurate than a standard fire mission. You can also call for fire using a TRP without having line of site to the target.

If you have indirect assets that are on map try getting them within LOS of the target, this will bring fire to bear very quickly and accurately.

If you are the attacker and have indirect assets available you can do an immediate fire mission on turn one in the defenders setup zone. Note: This is designed to simulate an attackers capability to plan a pre-attack bombardment on the objective and should not be used in any other situations. If you are the defender or you are playing a meeting engagement type scenario, it is considered extremely bad form to plan an arty strike on your opponents setup zone on turn one.

[Michael Emrys]

Another way is to use TRP's (Target reference points). These are purchased just like any other unit and placed during the setup phase. Any fire mission within 50 meters of the TRP will arrive faster and be more accurate than a standard fire mission. You can also call for fire using a TRP without having line of site to the target.

I am starting to use TRPs more than I used to. If you are purchasing them in a QB, they are cheap as dirt and come in packs of five. So I get a couple of packs and put them wherever I think there is a chance that I might want to call in some quick arty. True, most of them will go unused, but the ones that do get used make it all worth while.

Michael

[Rocky Balboa]

TRP’s are great and I wish more scenario designers would use them, especially those that take the time to add fighting positions, wire or mines. If the defender has time to dig positions, setup wire and mines then they should have time to pre register targets. Also allow the attacker to register targets for anything other than a hasty attack situation.

Question ... Does the AI use TRP’s if they are placed by the designer? If so then this would be another reason why they should always be provided for the defender when he has been in place for any length of time. Again, if they have time to dig holes then they have time to register fires.

If the AI doesn’t use them why not? Seems like this would be a perfect way for the designer to make a scenario more challenging and realistic.

[BigDog944]

Another suggestion to the OP is to slow down the pace of your battles. After all, 10 minutes to your pTruppen is really only enough time to sit down, catch their breath and have a smoke, maybe two. 10 turns is an eternity to us players, but in real life any officer who refuses to wait 10 minutes for the artillery to dial in before attacking a known enemy position would be considered wildly reckless and would likely have never reached a command position in the first place.

[Apocal]

My problem is the delay. A short delay of say 4-5 minutes I can just about manage, but often it's more than that, significantly more. Add the time of getting an observer in position, and it can be upwards of twenty minutes before rounds fall on target. I don't know where I'm going to need fire twenty minutes from now, or even ten sometimes. I keep getting these situations where either the strike I called ends up no longer relevant, or the strike I need won't arrive in time to be helpful. It doesn't help that much more often than not, the only eyes I can get on target aren't a FO, so the delay is even worse.

Obviously I can target the objectives on a map, and possibly any obvious defensive locations/routes of advance (if I'm attacking or defending, respectively), but even in that second instance I'm just guessing at the beginning of the game. Almost the only times I've been able to call effective strikes during the game are when I'm defending a static line against an obvious attack. But if my line held for ten minutes waiting for the arty anyway, I probably didn't need it all that much.

I guess I'm just having trouble organizing a planning ahead in such a way as to use the tools I have usefully.

Combine TRPs with minefields alongside something like a pair of machineguns laned on the flanks. Use responsive mortars to provide suppression once the MGs are silenced. If you still have time, consider next time buying a vet FO to slash the response.

[Moon]

Another suggestion to the OP is to slow down the pace of your battles. After all, 10 minutes to your pTruppen is really only enough time to sit down, catch their breath and have a smoke, maybe two. 10 turns is an eternity to us players, but in real life any officer who refuses to wait 10 minutes for the artillery to dial in before attacking a known enemy position would be considered wildly reckless and would likely have never reached a command position in the first place.

+1 for that. In fact, comparing what you sometimes ask of your virtual soldiers with the real world is the key to getting good results out of the game in most cases!

[A Canadian Cat]

My problem is the delay. A short delay of say 4-5 minutes I can just about manage, but often it's more than that, significantly more. Add the time of getting an observer in position, and it can be upwards of twenty minutes before rounds fall on target.

20 minutes - yikes what are you calling? OK some of the big stuff has a long delay (I have one game going where my 150mm German guns take 15min to call in). But I try to have my FOs less than 2min away from the front guys (use jeeps to increase their mobility - just don't get those jeeps into LOF of the enemy). The other thing I do is have a variety of artillery. Obviously this does not always work depending on the size of your force but for a big battle have a battery of 150, a battery of 105, a couple of 81mm mortars and a few on map mortars. That way if you know you can keep the enemy in one place you can bring down the 150 if not you can get some 81 on target much quicker. Heck call them both: the 81 might be enough to slow the enemy down long enough for the 150 to cause some real pain.

One useful thing to note about FOs (or any other HQ calling in the artillery) they do not have to stay in LOS for the whole time. My guys are living much longer now that I bring them up - make the call and then back off. Each turn watch the artillery board and wait until you see the spotting message show up and then move the caller back to LOS. Clearly you do not want to move them far but back from the bocage, behind the building or over the crest of the hill can make the difference between safe and artillery falling to dead and artillery in limbo.

Another suggestion to the OP is to slow down the pace of your battles. After all, 10 minutes to your pTruppen is really only enough time to sit down, catch their breath and have a smoke, maybe two. 10 turns is an eternity to us players, but in real life any officer who refuses to wait 10 minutes for the artillery to dial in before attacking a known enemy position would be considered wildly reckless and would likely have never reached a command position in the first place.

+1 for waiting.

As the attacker my mantra is wait for it. Use your troops to find the enemy and when you do find an enemy force you cannot handle wait for the arty easily. Bring up whom ever you need to call it. If you keep them close by but safe. Mine are typically able to get in place in about a minute.

Combine TRPs with minefields alongside something like a pair of machineguns laned on the flanks. Use responsive mortars to provide suppression once the MGs are silenced. If you still have time, consider next time buying a vet FO to slash the response.

+1 Here too. As the defender you want to delay your attacker with suppression fire and have TRPs ready to go so the fire comes down faster. Even without TRPs suppression to pin the attacker helps a lot. All you need to do is slow them down enough to get the arty to start.

As the defender my mantra is call it before you think you will need it and cancel it or adjust after. If your picket teams start seeing contacts call the arty - on top of your own guys. Wait a bit and either get confirmed contacts withdraw your guys and let the pain rain or cancel it if the thread is no biggie (note: it usually is a real threat).

[thebigJ_A]

Big arty (the really slow-to-arrive stuff) can be called in the preplan phase, then adusted into where you actually want it to fall much quicker than an initial call. A German 150mm battery firing 2 guns on Light will last for about 45 minutes, IIRC, and adjusts in about 4min (again, IIRC) with a decent FO. So you can get some pretty nasty effect fairly quickly. You might want to preplan a 15 minute delay, and have it plaster somewhere you don't expect the FO to get eyes on to start with, since you can bring it closer, but can't send it where you can't see.

I hadn't thought of that, thanks.

I just now had an artillery strike that was lining up to be very effective... until my FO got killed by his own spotting round. I guess he wasn't far enough back! Poor lil guy. :'(

[Rocky Balboa]

Another suggestion to the OP is to slow down the pace of your battles. After all, 10 minutes to your pTruppen is really only enough time to sit down, catch their breath and have a smoke, maybe two. 10 turns is an eternity to us players, but in real life any officer who refuses to wait 10 minutes for the artillery to dial in before attacking a known enemy position would be considered wildly reckless and would likely have never reached a command position in the first place.

Good advice but just remember, if you sit for too long, the other guy can have the same stuff falling from the sky as you do. I've learned this lesson on a number of occasions ....