Trouble with waypoints

[Vark]

I'm having a frustrating time with fire orders from different waypoints. My MGS was given a quick move with a pause for 5 seconds and a target order, repeated (to hit another building) then a final waypoint with no fire order. I hit play and watched the MGS follow out all the instructions, until the very end. Then, instead of not firing but going on overwatch it promptly kept on firing at the target of the penultimate waypoint!

Frustrating, as it wasted valuable shells and the solution of waypoints with arcs outside the target line is time consuming. I thought I had read about tactics that involved multiple waypoints, some without fire orders, I alas cannot seem to get my units to do such things. I've plotted all waypoints, then allocated orders for each, or cancelled existing target orders, to no avail.

[YankeeDog]

A waypoint does not, in and of itself, cancel an existing TARGET order -- a unit will continue to attempt to execute any TARGET order until another combat order supersedes it.

Easiest way to accomplish what you're trying to do is issue a FACE at the final waypoint, which will cancel all prior TARGET orders.

[Vark]

I though I had seen Chainsaw's assault guide, where his Stykers were given a series of waypoint targets but none in the final waypoint. Perhaps he issued a face order at the end. Many thanks, I'm trying to complete the 'Go to Town' scenario, and am finding FIBUA needs very delicate timings between suppression fire and final assaults.

[c3k]

As above. FACE will, obviously, cause the vehicle to pivot. That may be sub-optimal for your situation. A TARGET ARC will cause the turret to rotate while the vehicle maintains its end-of-move facing. Either targeting order will override the previous waypoint's order.

[Vark]

Thanks, the face instruction can be awkward, will any target arc cancel a previous waypoint order?

[agusto]

A target arc will cancel the previous target order of a specific unit.

[Vark]

Thanks for all the help, now my MGS's can fire one round at a building, to suppress, not half their magazine. Trouble is, the scenario is too easy now (even at Iron level) the US just has too much firepower, especially the 40mm Strykers, and 120mm mortars. Must think about getting the Shockforce package, not just the demo, need a bit more of a challenge.

Final, unrelated point, when you divide squads into teams can they ever reconstitute, as in the old CM game?

[Sgt Joch]

Final, unrelated point, when you divide squads into teams can they ever reconstitute, as in the old CM game?

yes, when they are on adjacent action spots, they will recombine automatically.

[c3k]

Thanks for all the help, now my MGS's can fire one round at a building, to suppress, not half their magazine. Trouble is, the scenario is too easy now (even at Iron level) the US just has too much firepower, especially the 40mm Strykers, and 120mm mortars. Must think about getting the Shockforce package, not just the demo, need a bit more of a challenge.

Final, unrelated point, when you divide squads into teams can they ever reconstitute, as in the old CM game?

If you enjoyed the demo, indeed, get the full game. Give serious consideration to the expansions. The different nationalities bring a great diversity in playing styles. US Marine platoons are something to behold with their inherent firepower and ability to absorb casualties. Assault troops, indeed. The various Euro's all have distinct strengths and weaknesses, as well. Additionally, the better Syrian TO&E can shred the blue forces if you're sloppy.

There's a whole lot of gaming goodness waiting in there!

Ken

[Erwin]

"Must think about getting the Shockforce package."

Um, yes...

And wot c3k said. Playing as the Brits (or other NATO countries) is much more Challengering.

[Vark]

Yes the Brits are an odd bag, the demo has a UK scenario and they take time to get the hang of. The light vehicles burn very easily, but they have an interesting selection of infantry units, Challenger II's are nice, but I made the mistake of going toe-to-toe with T-90's, ouch! The systems damage calculator is pretty unforgiving, as I found out the hard way.

Go to Town with USMC is an option, but it would be little or no fun really, even on Iron level.

[YankeeDog]

It's a variety of things. It's definitely true that the follow-on modules introduced some more "interesting" kit that can make for more challenging scenarios -- Brits have a lot of stuff that's powerful and/or highly mobile, but also fragile, etc. And the addition of some more powerful units like T-90s on the Syrian side certainly helps.

But it's more than just units. I also think that there was a learning curve that scenario designers went through with CMSF, and in general the later scenarios (both "official" scenarios included with the modules, and community crafted scenarios), are better designed and better balanced

Finally, I think the high lethality of many modern weapons systems tends to push the battle outcomes more towards the extremes in CMSF. In CMSF, when you win, you tend to win big. When you lose, you tend to lose big.

[Sgt Joch]

Part of it is also switching your mindset from WW2 to modern.

I read an interesting article from the mid 90s in which the Russians were discussing the lessons of the 1991 Gulf War pondering on how to survive in the new battlefield dominated by PGMs, i.e. precision guided munitions. They were discussing the use of two forces, an initial smaller, more spread out mobile force that would draw out, absorb and neutralize the bulk of the enemy's (i.e. U.S.A.) PGMs at which point the main body, a more conventional force would engage.

That also works well in CMSF.

[Vark]

I must say, the greater time allowed for missions, ability to reload and 1:1 representation of men seems to induce caution, as does, as has already been mentioned,

the lethality of modern weapons. Relative spotting also makes CM1 tactics redundant, especially the use of support weapons. Talking of reloading, why do my Strykers have no HE/WP hand grenades stored?

I love the little stories within a story aspect of this game, the squad hunting down ATGW team pushes too far and is ambushed, The SF Syrian sniper nearly making it to safety, but a 40mm grenade arcs over and explodes in the doorway he was running for.